Comments on: The Danish/Norwegian Cartoon Craziness http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/ Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:04:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » Why We Don’t Want Cooler Heads to Prevail http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-394 The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » Why We Don’t Want Cooler Heads to Prevail Tue, 07 Feb 2006 05:54:29 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-394 [...] There appears to be a consensus building among the mainstream in the US and Western Europe that “cooler heads” need to prevail and the confrontation between Muslim extremists and the West over the cartoons published by the Jyllands-Posten needs to be brought under control. If the folks who think cooler heads need to prevail mean cooler, calmer, more rational folks in the Middle East, and other Muslim communities, then I’m in agreement. [...] [...] There appears to be a consensus building among the mainstream in the US and Western Europe that “cooler heads” need to prevail and the confrontation between Muslim extremists and the West over the cartoons published by the Jyllands-Posten needs to be brought under control. If the folks who think cooler heads need to prevail mean cooler, calmer, more rational folks in the Middle East, and other Muslim communities, then I’m in agreement. [...]

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-379 Eric Mon, 06 Feb 2006 18:47:13 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-379 Bill, that is definitely troubling. As is the inability, or unwillingness, to control such reactions on the part of the religious and political leaders. We certainly will not encourage them to do so by rolling over and playing dead. Bill, that is definitely troubling. As is the inability, or unwillingness, to control such reactions on the part of the religious and political leaders. We certainly will not encourage them to do so by rolling over and playing dead.

]]> By: Bill http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-377 Bill Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:56:55 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-377 The fact that so much violence is occuring over a "tradition" rather than the actual religious doctrine has me troubled the most. Nowhere in the Koran does it state that there is to be no dipiction of Muhammed.  This is a man made rule and goes to the heart of how fanatical the hard core Islamists can be.  It's really a shame and a true perversion of religious belief. The fact that so much violence is occuring over a “tradition” rather than the actual religious doctrine has me troubled the most. Nowhere in the Koran does it state that there is to be no dipiction of Muhammed.  This is a man made rule and goes to the heart of how fanatical the hard core Islamists can be.  It’s really a shame and a true perversion of religious belief.

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-376 Eric Mon, 06 Feb 2006 15:23:15 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-376 Charles, I see every group of humans on the planet react in violence if they can get away with it. The issue here is not of ethnicity and race, but one of culture, religion and politics intertwined. Charles, I see every group of humans on the planet react in violence if they can get away with it. The issue here is not of ethnicity and race, but one of culture, religion and politics intertwined.

]]> By: Charles http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-374 Charles Mon, 06 Feb 2006 09:04:34 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-374 Thank God for Liberty and Freedom of speech. Do you see any other race or religion react in violence the way Islam does and how they surpress anyone who opposes their views. They also kill and maim in the name of Allah. Thank God for Liberty and Freedom of speech. Do you see any other race or religion react in violence the way Islam does and how they surpress anyone who opposes their views. They also kill and maim in the name of Allah.

]]> By: chie http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-373 chie Mon, 06 Feb 2006 04:48:50 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-373 I don't see any reason why this has become a reason to incite violence. As a Christian, God and Jesus Christ has been used in so many disrespectful ways and it hurts us just as much as it hurts the Muslims when Prophet Mohammed was used in the caricature. However, there is no need for the Muslims to burn or destroy properties in order to voice out their anger. It can be done in a more civilized manner. Because if we count the number of times God and Christ has been depicted blasphemously it is several times greater than this one singular cartoon. I don’t see any reason why this has become a reason to incite violence. As a Christian, God and Jesus Christ has been used in so many disrespectful ways and it hurts us just as much as it hurts the Muslims when Prophet Mohammed was used in the caricature. However, there is no need for the Muslims to burn or destroy properties in order to voice out their anger. It can be done in a more civilized manner. Because if we count the number of times God and Christ has been depicted blasphemously it is several times greater than this one singular cartoon.

]]> By: The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » Over the Top http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-369 The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » Over the Top Sun, 05 Feb 2006 17:53:36 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-369 [...] To the couple of commenters on this entry who suggested that the cartoons are racist, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. Racism is the belief that race or ethnicity accounts for differences in the character of people or their ability to do something. It is about discriminating based on someone’s ethnic group. These cartoons may be anti-religion, but they do nothing to single out someone for their race, or suggest that any ethnic group is inferior to another. Of course, your charges of racism are a convenient strawman to attack this, and is an attempt to deny the truth that the reactions of Muslims supports the satire of the cartoons in the first place. It is also an ad hominem attack, an attempt to discredit the message by attacking the messenger. If you can make the cartoonists out to be racists you will, you hope, avoid dealing with the message. It’s a trap that ultimately discredits you. Deal with the message. [...] [...] To the couple of commenters on this entry who suggested that the cartoons are racist, I’m sorry, but you’re wrong. Racism is the belief that race or ethnicity accounts for differences in the character of people or their ability to do something. It is about discriminating based on someone’s ethnic group. These cartoons may be anti-religion, but they do nothing to single out someone for their race, or suggest that any ethnic group is inferior to another. Of course, your charges of racism are a convenient strawman to attack this, and is an attempt to deny the truth that the reactions of Muslims supports the satire of the cartoons in the first place. It is also an ad hominem attack, an attempt to discredit the message by attacking the messenger. If you can make the cartoonists out to be racists you will, you hope, avoid dealing with the message. It’s a trap that ultimately discredits you. Deal with the message. [...]

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-362 Eric Sun, 05 Feb 2006 02:20:43 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-362 Ben, I think reacting with anger and offense when someone says something you don't like is "over the top", whether you reflect that anger in a violent fashion, or not. When you add violence to that reaction, you go from "over the top" to morally repugnant and wrong. Ben, I think reacting with anger and offense when someone says something you don’t like is “over the top”, whether you reflect that anger in a violent fashion, or not. When you add violence to that reaction, you go from “over the top” to morally repugnant and wrong.

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-361 Eric Sun, 05 Feb 2006 02:18:19 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-361 Actually Diego, criticizing a religion is not "racist". The second cartoon criticizes Islam through political satire. It is no more racist than a depiction of a Christian or Hebrew religious figure that is critical. Or, do you think all followers of Mohammed are of a single race, Diego? The cartoon is making a statement about Islam, not about any specific ethnic group. The fact is, Mohammed used violence to achieve his ends. The fact is, the vast majority of the violence and death by war and terrorism in the world in the past decade has been due to Islam. The reality is that Islam is used as the justification for incredible amounts of violence. This cartoon is using satire to make the argument that Islam is a violent religion. That isn't racist. You may not like it, you may think it's wrong, but it isn't racist. But, the easiest way to try to belittle something and make it "wrong", in our society, is to scream racism. Diego said: "though I believe it’s a lot of hot air, and no one’s actually going to do anything too serious based on one stupid cartoon." Oh, so invading hotels with automatic weapons, seeking out westerners to kidnap, torture and kill, isn't serious? Just what do you consider serious? Actually Diego, criticizing a religion is not “racist”. The second cartoon criticizes Islam through political satire. It is no more racist than a depiction of a Christian or Hebrew religious figure that is critical. Or, do you think all followers of Mohammed are of a single race, Diego? The cartoon is making a statement about Islam, not about any specific ethnic group.

The fact is, Mohammed used violence to achieve his ends. The fact is, the vast majority of the violence and death by war and terrorism in the world in the past decade has been due to Islam. The reality is that Islam is used as the justification for incredible amounts of violence. This cartoon is using satire to make the argument that Islam is a violent religion. That isn’t racist. You may not like it, you may think it’s wrong, but it isn’t racist. But, the easiest way to try to belittle something and make it “wrong”, in our society, is to scream racism.

Diego said: “though I believe it’s a lot of hot air, and no one’s actually going to do anything too serious based on one stupid cartoon.”

Oh, so invading hotels with automatic weapons, seeking out westerners to kidnap, torture and kill, isn’t serious? Just what do you consider serious?

]]> By: Ben http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-360 Ben Sat, 04 Feb 2006 23:41:49 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-360 Eric, I totally agree with you. It is sad that they must resort to violence and threats of violence when faced with criticism. I was merely responding to your comment on not seeing anything particularly offensive with the cartoons. I also do not see anything offensive to me personally, as I am not Muslim. However, to a Muslim it is obviously a very offensive thing. I guess what I am trying to say is that the Muslims are not "over the top" in being very offended, but they ARE "over the top" when that offense is manifested in violence. Eric, I totally agree with you. It is sad that they must resort to violence and threats of violence when faced with criticism. I was merely responding to your comment on not seeing anything particularly offensive with the cartoons. I also do not see anything offensive to me personally, as I am not Muslim. However, to a Muslim it is obviously a very offensive thing. I guess what I am trying to say is that the Muslims are not “over the top” in being very offended, but they ARE “over the top” when that offense is manifested in violence.

]]> By: Mike http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-359 Mike Sat, 04 Feb 2006 22:56:04 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-359 You miss the point, Diego...the followers of Pat Robertson aren't going around blowing up buildings and sawing off people's heads. I'm pretty sure that in the past 20 years, the followers of extremist Islam have killed more people than the followers of Christian extremists. Also, you mention that this cartoon is the equivalent of depicting all "Christian Americans as racist, homophobic, fundamentalists like Pat Robertson." Um...where have you been the past 15 years? Any Christian that takes a stand for their beliefs is almost always demonized in this way. And for the record, I'm not a racist; nothing could be further from the truth. Unlike many so-called "progressives" in our society, I am truly color blind. I like and dislike people based on the ideas they hold, not the color of their skin. I think the best way to illustrate this is to comment on my AFROTC det...right now, among my fellow cadets I have a person of Indian descent, Pakistani descent, several African-Americans, some people of Asian descent, and a few people from elsewhere in the Pacific. I have the utmost respect for each one of them because of the decision they have made to serve their country. Conversely, I have just as much hatred for the student who chose to wear a Hamas banner to dinner the night after the Palestinian elections, because I have just as much hatred for the ideas that he stands for. The color of Hamas-boy's skin is the same as the cadet of Pakistani descent, yet my feelings for them are totally opposite. Ideas. You miss the point, Diego…the followers of Pat Robertson aren’t going around blowing up buildings and sawing off people’s heads. I’m pretty sure that in the past 20 years, the followers of extremist Islam have killed more people than the followers of Christian extremists. Also, you mention that this cartoon is the equivalent of depicting all “Christian Americans as racist, homophobic, fundamentalists like Pat Robertson.” Um…where have you been the past 15 years? Any Christian that takes a stand for their beliefs is almost always demonized in this way.

And for the record, I’m not a racist; nothing could be further from the truth. Unlike many so-called “progressives” in our society, I am truly color blind. I like and dislike people based on the ideas they hold, not the color of their skin. I think the best way to illustrate this is to comment on my AFROTC det…right now, among my fellow cadets I have a person of Indian descent, Pakistani descent, several African-Americans, some people of Asian descent, and a few people from elsewhere in the Pacific. I have the utmost respect for each one of them because of the decision they have made to serve their country. Conversely, I have just as much hatred for the student who chose to wear a Hamas banner to dinner the night after the Palestinian elections, because I have just as much hatred for the ideas that he stands for. The color of Hamas-boy’s skin is the same as the cadet of Pakistani descent, yet my feelings for them are totally opposite.

Ideas.

]]> By: Diego http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-358 Diego Sat, 04 Feb 2006 20:06:36 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-358 I agree that it is wrong to limit freedom of expression of this kind, and that it is ridiculous to blame entire countries for allowing certain newspapers to publish a racist cartoon (and I'm sorry, the first one was funny, but the Mohammed with a bomb on his head is pretty racist.) I also find much of the commentary here outright racist. When you say : "some people of the Islamic faith have taken its beliefs to extreme forms, resulting in lots and lots of violence. Jews, on the other hand, have not…as we know now, most of the stereotypes of Jews, such as being greedy or drinking Christian babies’ blood, etc, have been proven false." What are you talking about? I'm half-jewish, and I know plenty of rich, greedy, big-nosed jews. Every racist stereotype is going to represent a portion of the target group. I'd say it's about as accurate to depict Muslims as terrorists and extremists as it is to depict all Christian Americans as racist, homophobic, fundamentalists like Pat Robertson. It is simply inaccurate, and in an environment of anti-Arab racism in western Europe, it amounts to racism. Racism isn't just about ignorance and stereotypes, it's about context and power. Thus I understand the angry Muslims, but denounce their threats of violence and such, though I believe it's a lot of hot air, and no one's actually going to do anything too serious based on one stupid cartoon. I agree that it is wrong to limit freedom of expression of this kind, and that it is ridiculous to blame entire countries for allowing certain newspapers to publish a racist cartoon (and I’m sorry, the first one was funny, but the Mohammed with a bomb on his head is pretty racist.)
I also find much of the commentary here outright racist. When you say :

“some people of the Islamic faith have taken its beliefs to extreme forms, resulting in lots and lots of violence. Jews, on the other hand, have not…as we know now, most of the stereotypes of Jews, such as being greedy or drinking Christian babies’ blood, etc, have been proven false.”

What are you talking about? I’m half-jewish, and I know plenty of rich, greedy, big-nosed jews. Every racist stereotype is going to represent a portion of the target group. I’d say it’s about as accurate to depict Muslims as terrorists and extremists as it is to depict all Christian Americans as racist, homophobic, fundamentalists like Pat Robertson. It is simply inaccurate, and in an environment of anti-Arab racism in western Europe, it amounts to racism. Racism isn’t just about ignorance and stereotypes, it’s about context and power.

Thus I understand the angry Muslims, but denounce their threats of violence and such, though I believe it’s a lot of hot air, and no one’s actually going to do anything too serious based on one stupid cartoon.

]]> By: morph http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-355 morph Sat, 04 Feb 2006 11:15:24 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-355 Amir, I believe denying the holocaust is only illegal in Austria. Austria didn't run these cartoons that I know of. Countries that did run the cartoons, have no laws against depicting jews insultingly in cartoons. Amir, I believe denying the holocaust is only illegal in Austria. Austria didn’t run these cartoons that I know of. Countries that did run the cartoons, have no laws against depicting jews insultingly in cartoons.

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-353 Eric Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:48:55 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-353 Ben, most Christians consider dipping the cross in urine to be sacrilige. I didn't see them trying to kidnap and torture people because of that. I understand some of the issue is about religious beliefs and some is about the offensive nature of the cartoons. They are busily proving the point of the cartoonist right now, don't you think? Ben, most Christians consider dipping the cross in urine to be sacrilige. I didn’t see them trying to kidnap and torture people because of that. I understand some of the issue is about religious beliefs and some is about the offensive nature of the cartoons. They are busily proving the point of the cartoonist right now, don’t you think?

]]> By: Ben http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-352 Ben Fri, 03 Feb 2006 22:45:19 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/02/03/the-danishnorwegian-cartoon-craziness/#comment-352 Eric: Muslims are going crazy over this because drawing a representation of Muhammed is sacrilege in Islam. By all accounts, they would be angry even if the drawings had not been derogatory in any way to Muhammed, as merely portraying him at all is wrong. Now, that is not to say that I agree with them.... Eric: Muslims are going crazy over this because drawing a representation of Muhammed is sacrilege in Islam. By all accounts, they would be angry even if the drawings had not been derogatory in any way to Muhammed, as merely portraying him at all is wrong.
Now, that is not to say that I agree with them….

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