Comments on: The Nanny State vs. The Family Part II http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/ Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:04:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: pinkdiary808.com » Carnival of Family Life #11 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-2123 pinkdiary808.com » Carnival of Family Life #11 Wed, 09 Aug 2006 10:00:26 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-2123 [...] Doug from The Liberty Papers discusses a very unusual case. At what point can/should a government agency step in and overrule a family’s decision in regards to their child’s medical treatment? Read about it at The Nanny State vs. The Family Part II. [...] [...] Doug from The Liberty Papers discusses a very unusual case. At what point can/should a government agency step in and overrule a family’s decision in regards to their child’s medical treatment? Read about it at The Nanny State vs. The Family Part II. [...]

]]> By: Barbie Lee http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1817 Barbie Lee Tue, 25 Jul 2006 17:42:04 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1817 I don't have time for this debate. Start with a few of these and research your data. The first one ought to scare the pants off yuh! http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/ http://www.krysalis.net/cancer.htm http://www.rense.com/general19/enemy.htm http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2004/08/10/the_doctor_many_believe_can_cure_cancer.htm http://homodiet.netfirms.com/otherssay/dr_budwig.htm Death by doctoring http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/doctoring2.html http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/government_cover_up.htm http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hoffer-a-j_orthomol_med-1991-v6-n3_4-p155.htm Cancer quotes http://www.whale.to/cancer/quotes.html Google Linus Pauling vitamin C and I have hundreds more. Get educated rather than following the rest of the pack. What you don't know can kill yuh! always Barb I don’t have time for this debate.
Start with a few of these and research your data.
The first one ought to scare the pants off yuh!
http://www.hydrazinesulfate.org/
http://www.krysalis.net/cancer.htm
http://www.rense.com/general19/enemy.htm
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/chris/2004/08/10/the_doctor_many_believe_can_cure_cancer.htm
http://homodiet.netfirms.com/otherssay/dr_budwig.htm

Death by doctoring
http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/doctoring2.html
http://www.mercola.com/article/aspartame/government_cover_up.htm
http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/199x/hoffer-a-j_orthomol_med-1991-v6-n3_4-p155.htm

Cancer quotes
http://www.whale.to/cancer/quotes.html

Google Linus Pauling vitamin C
and I have hundreds more.

Get educated rather than following the rest of the pack. What you don’t know can kill yuh!
always
Barb

]]> By: Alternative and Complementary Cancer Treatments » Blog Archive » The Nanny State vs. The Family Part II - Liberty Papers http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1803 Alternative and Complementary Cancer Treatments » Blog Archive » The Nanny State vs. The Family Part II - Liberty Papers Mon, 24 Jul 2006 17:31:58 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1803 [...] The Nanny State vs. The Family Part IILiberty Papers, CA - 51 minutes ago… at hand, of course, was Abraham’s cancer treatments. Abraham and his parents made the choice to discontinue his chemotherapy and try alternative medicine. … Breaking News: Teen must submit to CHKD treatment WVEC.com (subscription)Teen's court battle gains national attention Chincoteague Beaconall 101 related [...] [...] The Nanny State vs. The Family Part IILiberty Papers, CA - 51 minutes ago… at hand, of course, was Abraham’s cancer treatments. Abraham and his parents made the choice to discontinue his chemotherapy and try alternative medicine. … Breaking News: Teen must submit to CHKD treatment WVEC.com (subscription)Teen's court battle gains national attention Chincoteague Beaconall 101 related [...]

]]> By: Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » Carnival Monday http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1802 Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » Carnival Monday Mon, 24 Jul 2006 15:43:40 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1802 [...] Finally, there’s the Carnival of Family Life # 11 which is hosted at The Pink Diary and which includes my post from The Liberty Papers about the Abraham Cherrix case. [...] [...] Finally, there’s the Carnival of Family Life # 11 which is hosted at The Pink Diary and which includes my post from The Liberty Papers about the Abraham Cherrix case. [...]

]]> By: Spark It Up!!! http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1799 Spark It Up!!! Mon, 24 Jul 2006 14:04:19 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1799 <strong>The Virginia Blog Carnival</strong> Welcome to the Virginia Blog Carnival. Carnival by definition is The Virginia Blog Carnival

Welcome to the Virginia Blog Carnival. Carnival by definition is

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1797 Eric Mon, 24 Jul 2006 13:03:47 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1797 Do we allow children and parents to commit sucide by quackery? 85% of Hodgkins patients are successfully treated with chemo. Indirect study of the Hoxley "method" reveal a 10% success rate. This means that he is more likley to DIE by choosing the quackery then not choosing any treatment at all. The Hoxley "method" may in fact be much lower as well. After 50 years of treating patients in Mexico they have not one published a true study of the effectiveness of his "cure". Chemo may be poision, but it's one of the only effective treatments we have. You can bash western medicine all you like, but you can't argue with the effectiveness of it. Do we allow children and parents to commit sucide by quackery?

85% of Hodgkins patients are successfully treated with chemo.

Indirect study of the Hoxley “method” reveal a 10% success rate.

This means that he is more likley to DIE by choosing the quackery then not choosing any treatment at all. The Hoxley “method” may in fact be much lower as well. After 50 years of treating patients in Mexico they have not one published a true study of the effectiveness of his “cure”.

Chemo may be poision, but it’s one of the only effective treatments we have. You can bash western medicine all you like, but you can’t argue with the effectiveness of it.

]]> By: Phil http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1789 Phil Sun, 23 Jul 2006 22:06:03 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1789 "Look up the real numbers, not what the medical establishment is doctoring before they publish their success rates. More than sixty percent of those treated with chemotherapy never make it past the first series of treatments." I would actually be very interested in reading the real numbers, and also in reading more about your statistic involving gynecologists. Can you cite a source for those statistics or refer me to where they're available? As regards your criticism of my analogy, if the parents believe that food will magically appear in the belly of a young girl, who are we to question their beliefs? Who is the _government_ to question that belief? “Look up the real numbers, not what the medical establishment is doctoring before they publish their success rates. More than sixty percent of those treated with chemotherapy never make it past the first series of treatments.”

I would actually be very interested in reading the real numbers, and also in reading more about your statistic involving gynecologists. Can you cite a source for those statistics or refer me to where they’re available?

As regards your criticism of my analogy, if the parents believe that food will magically appear in the belly of a young girl, who are we to question their beliefs? Who is the _government_ to question that belief?

]]> By: Barbie Lee http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1779 Barbie Lee Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:57:08 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1779 Kill lice by sticking red hot pokers in the eyes??? Pray food may magicly appear in the belly of a young girl for nurishment??? Your analogy to the problem facing the young man who has been ordered by the judge and the state, against his and his parents wishes, to undergo chemo toxin therapy eludes me. Look up the real numbers, not what the medical establishment is doctoring before they publish their success rates. More than sixty percent of those treated with chemotherapy never make it past the first series of treatments. Those numbers are discarded, "because they were going to die anyway". Chemo toxins are regulated as hazardous waste. If a nurse spills any it must be reported and cleaned up as a toxic spill. More than fifty percent of the gynocologists said they would not take chemotherapy if they had cancer. Did you know radiation only has a ninety percent kill rate against cancer at best? And what is left will come back with a vengence. Who do you trust without question? Politicians? Lawyers? Auto Mechanics? Repairmen? Judges? Maybe you trust doctors without question? I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma I'll sell. Even toss in the Brooklyn Bridge as a bonus. Send a million cash today to hold this great once in a lifetime offer. We can't offer it tomorrow. Question everything and everyone. Believe no one until it has been proven. The truth is there, one only has to look hard enough past all the lies. always Barb Kill lice by sticking red hot pokers in the eyes???
Pray food may magicly appear in the belly of a young girl for nurishment???

Your analogy to the problem facing the young man who has been ordered by the judge and the state, against his and his parents wishes, to undergo chemo toxin therapy eludes me.

Look up the real numbers, not what the medical establishment is doctoring before they publish their success rates. More than sixty percent of those treated with chemotherapy never make it past the first series of treatments. Those numbers are discarded, “because they were going to die anyway”. Chemo toxins are regulated as hazardous waste. If a nurse spills any it must be reported and cleaned up as a toxic spill. More than fifty percent of the gynocologists said they would not take chemotherapy if they had cancer.

Did you know radiation only has a ninety percent kill rate against cancer at best? And what is left will come back with a vengence.

Who do you trust without question? Politicians? Lawyers? Auto Mechanics? Repairmen? Judges? Maybe you trust doctors without question?

I have some ocean front property in Oklahoma I’ll sell. Even toss in the Brooklyn Bridge as a bonus. Send a million cash today to hold this great once in a lifetime offer. We can’t offer it tomorrow.

Question everything and everyone. Believe no one until it has been proven. The truth is there, one only has to look hard enough past all the lies.
always
Barb

]]> By: VRB http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1778 VRB Sun, 23 Jul 2006 13:30:13 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1778 After bouts with chemotherapy and no results, when does it end. Chemotherapy is an acknowledged poison, one would hope it kills more cancer than healthy cells and to some the side effects feel worst than death. There can become a point where there are no healthy cells left. Are we going to force more torture? If the alternative treatment would do no harm, maybe the placebo effect would work. From watching children deal with cancer in documentaries, I amazed how mature they are when it comes to their disease and how they cope with death. I saw one child of 16 who had to make his medical decisions, because his parent had sort of checked out mentally. After bouts with chemotherapy and no results, when does it end. Chemotherapy is an acknowledged poison, one would hope it kills more cancer than healthy cells and to some the side effects feel worst than death. There can become a point where there are no healthy cells left. Are we going to force more torture? If the alternative treatment would do no harm, maybe the placebo effect would work. From watching children deal with cancer in documentaries, I amazed how mature they are when it comes to their disease and how they cope with death. I saw one child of 16 who had to make his medical decisions, because his parent had sort of checked out mentally.

]]> By: Phil http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1766 Phil Sun, 23 Jul 2006 03:25:59 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1766 I discussed this case earlier today with a friend, and we came up with the following hypothetical scenario: The parents of a young girl decide not to feed her, but instead decide to pray fervently that food will appear in her stomach. They sincerely believe that this will nourish her. After she dies, are the parents guilty of criminal negligence? A hardcore libertarian might argue that the state has no right to interfere in child-care decisions made by parents, and a bleeding-heart liberal might argue that the state must always step in when parents make unhealthy choices. I suspect most reasonable Americans fall somewhere in between. The relevant factors in both the hypothetical example and the Cherrix case are the age of the child, the sincerity of the parents' beliefs, and the efficacy of the course of treatment (for hunger or cancer, respectively.) If the child is of legal age to make medical decisions, neither the parents nor the effectiveness of treatment matter. He or she should be free to make good or bad health decisions. If the parents are responsible for their child, but do not actually believe the treatment they are choosing will be effective, they may be committing fraud in an attempt to cover up negligent behavior. If the treatment is effective, then choosing an alternative method to cure hunger or cancer is indeed simply a medical decision, and not potential negligence. None of these factors can be identified readily, unless the state of Virginia has a clear legal definition of when the age of majority begins. Is it appropriate for a court to consider these factors in determining whether a medical decision is legal? If you believe it is not appropriate for a court to consider the effectiveness of the treatment, does it follow that you also believe parents may freely allow their ten-year-olds to treat lice by sticking red-hot pokers in their eyes? I discussed this case earlier today with a friend, and we came up with the following hypothetical scenario:
The parents of a young girl decide not to feed her, but instead decide to pray fervently that food will appear in her stomach. They sincerely believe that this will nourish her. After she dies, are the parents guilty of criminal negligence?
A hardcore libertarian might argue that the state has no right to interfere in child-care decisions made by parents, and a bleeding-heart liberal might argue that the state must always step in when parents make unhealthy choices. I suspect most reasonable Americans fall somewhere in between.

The relevant factors in both the hypothetical example and the Cherrix case are the age of the child, the sincerity of the parents’ beliefs, and the efficacy of the course of treatment (for hunger or cancer, respectively.)

If the child is of legal age to make medical decisions, neither the parents nor the effectiveness of treatment matter. He or she should be free to make good or bad health decisions.

If the parents are responsible for their child, but do not actually believe the treatment they are choosing will be effective, they may be committing fraud in an attempt to cover up negligent behavior.

If the treatment is effective, then choosing an alternative method to cure hunger or cancer is indeed simply a medical decision, and not potential negligence.

None of these factors can be identified readily, unless the state of Virginia has a clear legal definition of when the age of majority begins. Is it appropriate for a court to consider these factors in determining whether a medical decision is legal?

If you believe it is not appropriate for a court to consider the effectiveness of the treatment, does it follow that you also believe parents may freely allow their ten-year-olds to treat lice by sticking red-hot pokers in their eyes?

]]> By: Barbie Lee http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1764 Barbie Lee Sun, 23 Jul 2006 02:40:54 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1764 Alternative treatment works. The problem is there is a lot of quackery in the alternative treatment just as there are pharmacutical companies driving the teaching of your doctors and the billion dollars a year cancer treatments pour back into the medical field. I have more than two years and have over two thousand pages of research on the alternative and medical treatment of cancer. Cancer is an opportunistic disease. Every single cancer is an acid engine cell instead of an effecient anarobic engine cell. If you look up the chemo toxin Gemzar which is one of the toxins they pump into the cancer patient. It is a virtual death sentence. It clips the telurides off all DNA to stop the cells from replicating. It most certainly stops cancer from reproducing but it stops all cells from reproducing. The patient will die with in three months of being pumped full of Gemzar. The medical massages the numbers to make you think they are gaining on treating cancer. Actually they are losing a larger percentage of cancer patients to cancer than they did forty years ago. It's a long sad story what your pharmacutical companies are doing to the public in order to pad the bottom line. I pray God has a special place for all those who are counting money over lives. You want the pants scared off you? Look up the true story about Laetril, Dr. Royal Raymond Rife, Hydrazine sulfate-Dr. Gold. Cancer is such a simple disease and so easily treated it isn't funny. The bottom line is all cancers are acidic. Stay away from the quacks in the medical fields and the alternative medicine fields. always Barb Alternative treatment works. The problem is there is a lot of quackery in the alternative treatment just as there are pharmacutical companies driving the teaching of your doctors and the billion dollars a year cancer treatments pour back into the medical field.

I have more than two years and have over two thousand pages of research on the alternative and medical treatment of cancer.

Cancer is an opportunistic disease. Every single cancer is an acid engine cell instead of an effecient anarobic engine cell.

If you look up the chemo toxin Gemzar which is one of the toxins they pump into the cancer patient. It is a virtual death sentence. It clips the telurides off all DNA to stop the cells from replicating. It most certainly stops cancer from reproducing but it stops all cells from reproducing. The patient will die with in three months of being pumped full of Gemzar.

The medical massages the numbers to make you think they are gaining on treating cancer. Actually they are losing a larger percentage of cancer patients to cancer than they did forty years ago.

It’s a long sad story what your pharmacutical companies are doing to the public in order to pad the bottom line. I pray God has a special place for all those who are counting money over lives.

You want the pants scared off you? Look up the true story about Laetril, Dr. Royal Raymond Rife, Hydrazine sulfate-Dr. Gold.

Cancer is such a simple disease and so easily treated it isn’t funny. The bottom line is all cancers are acidic.

Stay away from the quacks in the medical fields and the alternative medicine fields.
always
Barb

]]> By: M Sweet http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1761 M Sweet Sun, 23 Jul 2006 01:43:25 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1761 What surprises me most is that a 13 year old child, convicted of taking the life another, can be tried as an adult. Can be expected to understand the choices and except responsibility for the choice. So why are the mental and decision making abilities of a 16 year old child spurned as being inadequate to make such a life altering choice? What surprises me most is that a 13 year old child, convicted of taking the life another, can be tried as an adult. Can be expected to understand the choices and except responsibility for the choice. So why are the mental and decision making abilities of a 16 year old child spurned as being inadequate to make such a life altering choice?

]]> By: Robert Bednarz http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1756 Robert Bednarz Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:33:51 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1756 I know 2 people who have died horribly of cancers in the past 2 years. They both insisted on alternative medicine. They were both adults. The treatments totaled ~ $90,000 for the both. These treatment are still being offered . However no accounting is made of the deaths. Only the occasional positive is counted. Expensive false hope results. I know 2 people who have died horribly of cancers in the past 2 years. They both insisted on alternative medicine. They were both adults. The treatments totaled ~ $90,000 for the both. These treatment are still being offered . However no accounting is made of the deaths. Only the occasional positive is counted. Expensive false hope results.

]]> By: Stephen Macklin http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1723 Stephen Macklin Sat, 22 Jul 2006 21:18:31 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1723 Doug, Sorry I wasn't referring to anyone in particular, just a general observation about the story. I have heard a lot of anti-abortion conservatives who were cheering on the government in the Shaivo case, arguing against the government interference in this instance. In this instance, I think they happen to have gotten it right. Doug,

Sorry I wasn’t referring to anyone in particular, just a general observation about the story. I have heard a lot of anti-abortion conservatives who were cheering on the government in the Shaivo case, arguing against the government interference in this instance.

In this instance, I think they happen to have gotten it right.

]]> By: Bob http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1721 Bob Sat, 22 Jul 2006 19:32:42 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/07/21/the-nanny-state-vs-the-family-part-ii/#comment-1721 Abe and his family need to check quickly into the "emancipated minor" laws in Virginia. For example, if he gets married he will no longer be under the jurisdiction of Judge Demps. (there are probably other ways to accomplish the same thing) Another possibility is for him to convert to the Christian Science religion. Regards, Bob Abe and his family need to check quickly into the “emancipated minor” laws in Virginia. For example, if he gets married he will no longer be under the jurisdiction of Judge Demps. (there are probably other ways to accomplish the same thing)

Another possibility is for him to convert to the Christian Science religion.

Regards, Bob

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