Comments on: Another Victim of the Drug War http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/ Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time. Wed, 08 Feb 2012 17:04:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Problem With No-Knock Raids http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3544 The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Problem With No-Knock Raids Sun, 26 Nov 2006 13:02:19 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3544 [...] There have been several posts here this week about what can go wrong when police execute a so-called no-knock search warrant, or more generally when they shoot first and ask questions later. In Atlanta, in resulted in the death of a 92 year-old woman. And, in New York, the shoot-first-ask-questions-later philosophy resulted in the death of a 23 year-old father on the eve of his wedding. [...] [...] There have been several posts here this week about what can go wrong when police execute a so-called no-knock search warrant, or more generally when they shoot first and ask questions later. In Atlanta, in resulted in the death of a 92 year-old woman. And, in New York, the shoot-first-ask-questions-later philosophy resulted in the death of a 23 year-old father on the eve of his wedding. [...]

]]> By: The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Case for Change http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3520 The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » The Case for Change Sat, 25 Nov 2006 19:06:42 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3520 [...] The Drug War has brought more crime and violence to our neighborhoods. It has created cheaper, stronger, more addictive drugs. Crack, for example, would not have been invented if the black market price of cocaine had not been so high and the availability so limited. Kathryn Johnson would not have been killed by a fusillade of over 100 bullets, fired by thuggish cops, if not for the Drug War. [...] [...] The Drug War has brought more crime and violence to our neighborhoods. It has created cheaper, stronger, more addictive drugs. Crack, for example, would not have been invented if the black market price of cocaine had not been so high and the availability so limited. Kathryn Johnson would not have been killed by a fusillade of over 100 bullets, fired by thuggish cops, if not for the Drug War. [...]

]]> By: Adam Selene http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3473 Adam Selene Thu, 23 Nov 2006 20:14:58 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3473 Nick, the argument that drugs are not a crime carries no weight with Mrs. Grundy. The argument that drug prohibition creates violence and additional crime may. And, certainly, the violence and crime brought to our society by the War on Drugs is far and away worse than any possible impact of drug use itself. Nick,

the argument that drugs are not a crime carries no weight with Mrs. Grundy. The argument that drug prohibition creates violence and additional crime may. And, certainly, the violence and crime brought to our society by the War on Drugs is far and away worse than any possible impact of drug use itself.

]]> By: Nick http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3464 Nick Thu, 23 Nov 2006 09:05:58 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3464 Argh, while I've been for the legalization of drugs for several years, I've never once used the argument that the drug war costs way too much in lives and money. Which doesn't mean I haven't recognized that fact, just that I think it's ancillary to the central point that drug use in and of itself is no crime. Still this is possibly a perfect illustration of what happens when overzealous police basically duplicate the actions of a common robber. Argh, while I’ve been for the legalization of drugs for several years, I’ve never once used the argument that the drug war costs way too much in lives and money.

Which doesn’t mean I haven’t recognized that fact, just that I think it’s ancillary to the central point that drug use in and of itself is no crime.

Still this is possibly a perfect illustration of what happens when overzealous police basically duplicate the actions of a common robber.

]]> By: Mary Sales http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3454 Mary Sales Wed, 22 Nov 2006 21:11:45 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3454 From the news accounts I've seen, these plainsclothed policemen, in a no-knock entry, battered the door down of a 92-year-old woman who understandably shot in self-defense what she thought were intruders (screaming that you are the cops while battering down a door might not be an effective way to "annouce yourself"). This elderly woman, who reportedly lived alone, was fired at with over 100 rounds of ammo. My question is-how difficult could it be for police to check and find out prior to storming this house that an elderly woman lived there, as was widely known in this neighborhood? The police state that a narcotics buy was made there the previous day from a young man. Even IF this does prove to be true (the police refused to name a suspect and have made no arrests) did these officers check or take into consideration that an old woman was the primary (and possibly only) resident? If not, this certainly seems negligent to me. Just because "drug dealing is often a violent and deadly occupation" does not mean that the police have the right to break into a home and shoot a most likely completely innocent old woman who feared for her life. I am sympathetic to the danger and difficulties of police work (in fact, my brother is a cop) but not doing a proper investigation before commiting  a dangerous and extreme action such as this is unexcusable."Oops, we're sorry" doesn't cut it. From the news accounts I’ve seen, these plainsclothed policemen, in a no-knock entry, battered the door down of a 92-year-old woman who understandably shot in self-defense what she thought were intruders (screaming that you are the cops while battering down a door might not be an effective way to ”annouce yourself”). This elderly woman, who reportedly lived alone, was fired at with over 100 rounds of ammo. My question is-how difficult could it be for police to check and find out prior to storming this house that an elderly woman lived there, as was widely known in this neighborhood? The police state that a narcotics buy was made there the previous day from a young man. Even IF this does prove to be true (the police refused to name a suspect and have made no arrests) did these officers check or take into consideration that an old woman was the primary (and possibly only) resident? If not, this certainly seems negligent to me. Just because “drug dealing is often a violent and deadly occupation” does not mean that the police have the right to break into a home and shoot a most likely completely innocent old woman who feared for her life. I am sympathetic to the danger and difficulties of police work (in fact, my brother is a cop) but not doing a proper investigation before commiting  a dangerous and extreme action such as this is unexcusable.”Oops, we’re sorry” doesn’t cut it.

]]> By: Adam Selene http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3444 Adam Selene Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:12:44 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3444 Sorry, the government is never right until proven so. Police should ALWAYS err on the side of protecting the innocent. Given that there are many people wrongly facing drug warrants and no knock entry, it is incumbent on the police to demonstrate how that protects the lives, safety and welfare of the citizens, <i>which is their primary duty</i>. They are our servants, we are not theirs. Sorry, the government is never right until proven so. Police should ALWAYS err on the side of protecting the innocent. Given that there are many people wrongly facing drug warrants and no knock entry, it is incumbent on the police to demonstrate how that protects the lives, safety and welfare of the citizens, which is their primary duty. They are our servants, we are not theirs.

]]> By: Brad Warbiany http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3442 Brad Warbiany Wed, 22 Nov 2006 20:07:09 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3442 Larry, As I mentioned, I'm not saying the police who fired were in the wrong in any way, as they fired after being fired upon. What I'm saying is that we need to look at what brought the officers to this woman's door. That may be negligence on the part of whoever approved this warrant, or whoever didn't bother to investigate whether this alleged drug dealer was simply selling drugs on the property, or whether the dealer actually lived there. There may certainly be negligence involved, although I doubt it was with the officers on the scene last night. Larry,

As I mentioned, I’m not saying the police who fired were in the wrong in any way, as they fired after being fired upon.

What I’m saying is that we need to look at what brought the officers to this woman’s door. That may be negligence on the part of whoever approved this warrant, or whoever didn’t bother to investigate whether this alleged drug dealer was simply selling drugs on the property, or whether the dealer actually lived there. There may certainly be negligence involved, although I doubt it was with the officers on the scene last night.

]]> By: Larry Stanley http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3438 Larry Stanley Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:52:31 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3438 No-knock entry protects lives of the police. Conflicting news reports do indicate the word of a dealer, seen selling outside this address, was used in obtaining the warrant. If you did not know the full nature of the situation, and believed there may be armed and dangerous drug dealers inside, would you politely knock at the door hoping to have 3 policemen shot? Apparently they did announce themselves in some fashion. The first shots came from inside the house. Drug dealing is often a violent and deadly occupation. I have to side with the police until some evidence surfaces pointing to their negligence. No-knock entry protects lives of the police.

Conflicting news reports do indicate the word of a dealer, seen selling outside this address, was used in obtaining the warrant.

If you did not know the full nature of the situation, and believed there may be armed and dangerous drug dealers inside, would you politely knock at the door hoping to have 3 policemen shot?

Apparently they did announce themselves in some fashion. The first shots came from inside the house. Drug dealing is often a violent and deadly occupation. I have to side with the police until some evidence surfaces pointing to their negligence.

]]> By: mike http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3436 mike Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:33:27 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3436 Zeebs, according to the news conference the police actually announced themselves AS they were kicking in the door. Zeebs, according to the news conference the police actually announced themselves AS they were kicking in the door.

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3435 Eric Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:15:43 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3435 Hmmm, I wonder if there were any other witnesses, or just one dead one? Hmmm, I wonder if there were any other witnesses, or just one dead one?

]]> By: Eric http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3434 Eric Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:14:48 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3434 No knock raids are one of the inevitable consequences of our modern Prohibition, as are the gang wars, deaths to dirty drugs, crime, violence, prostitution, glorification of the drug gangster culture and all the rest. Friedman's <a href="http://www.fff.org/freedom/0490e.asp" rel="nofollow">open letter</a> to Bill Bennett says it more eloquently than I could have. No knock raids are one of the inevitable consequences of our modern Prohibition, as are the gang wars, deaths to dirty drugs, crime, violence, prostitution, glorification of the drug gangster culture and all the rest.

Friedman’s open letter to Bill Bennett says it more eloquently than I could have.

]]> By: Zeebs http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3433 Zeebs Wed, 22 Nov 2006 18:09:33 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3433 A guy who lived at the address was dealing from that house. The news conference also revealed the cops announced themselves then kicked down the door when the woman shot at them. A guy who lived at the address was dealing from that house. The news conference also revealed the cops announced themselves then kicked down the door when the woman shot at them.

]]> By: mike http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3432 mike Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:55:06 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3432 The bottom line is that you there's absolutely NO reason to use dynamic entry tactics when you're raiding a non-violent offender. No-knock raids create these kinds of situations. Fyi, Radley Balko's got a lot more coverage over at his place. http://www.theagitator.com/ The bottom line is that you there’s absolutely NO reason to use dynamic entry tactics when you’re raiding a non-violent offender. No-knock raids create these kinds of situations.

Fyi, Radley Balko’s got a lot more coverage over at his place.

http://www.theagitator.com/

]]> By: Dave http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3431 Dave Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:32:31 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3431 We'll have to see how this unfolds - Atlanta Police press conference didn't provide much new information about how this happened, but they did indicate that there was an undercover drug buy from a male at the residence earlier in the afternoon, and that's why the warrant was issued. If it turns out that this isn't some horrible case of mistake of address... I wonder who did they buy from and where are they now??? We’ll have to see how this unfolds – Atlanta Police press conference didn’t provide much new information about how this happened, but they did indicate that there was an undercover drug buy from a male at the residence earlier in the afternoon, and that’s why the warrant was issued.

If it turns out that this isn’t some horrible case of mistake of address… I wonder who did they buy from and where are they now???

]]> By: Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » Drug War Claims 92 Year-Old Victim http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3430 Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » Drug War Claims 92 Year-Old Victim Wed, 22 Nov 2006 17:32:29 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2006/11/22/another-victim-of-the-drug-war/#comment-3430 [...] Like Brad, I agree that the police, once fired upon, were justified in firing back to protect themselves. The problem is, why were they there in the first place ? This was obviously a case of mistaken identity and the use of force was just a sample of what is brought to bear every day in America’s continued war against (some) recreational drugs.   [link] [...] [...] Like Brad, I agree that the police, once fired upon, were justified in firing back to protect themselves. The problem is, why were they there in the first place ? This was obviously a case of mistaken identity and the use of force was just a sample of what is brought to bear every day in America’s continued war against (some) recreational drugs.   [link] [...]

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