Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.

“A democracy is two wolves and a small lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.”     Benjamin Franklin

December 21, 2006

Republican Religious Bigotry

by Doug Mataconis

I wrote earlier this month about the Dennis Prager induced hysteria that had arisen regarding the decision by Minnesota Congressman Keith Ellison, a Muslim, to be sworn in using the Koran at his ceremonial swearing-in as a Congressman in January. This week, a Congressman from my own state of Virginia, Virgil Goode, decided to get involved in this stupid little story as evidenced by this letter to a constituent:

Thank you for your recent communication. When I raise my hand to take the oath on Swearing In Day, I will have the Bible in my other hand. I do not subscribe to using the Koran in any way. The Muslim Representative from Minnesota was elected by the voters of that district and if American citizens don’t wake up and adopt the Virgil Goode position on immigration there will likely be many more Muslims elected to office and demanding the use of the Koran. We need to stop illegal immigration totally and reduce legal immigration and end the diversity visas policy pushed hard by President Clinton and allowing many persons from the Middle East to come to this country. I fear that in the next century we will have many more Muslims in the United States if we do not adopt the strict immigration policies that I believe are necessary to preserve the values and beliefs traditional to the United States of America and to prevent our resources from being swamped.

The Ten Commandments and “In God We Trust” are on the wall in my office. A Muslim student came by the office and asked why I did not have anything on my wall about the Koran. My response was clear, “As long as I have the honor of representing the citizens of the 5th District of Virginia in the United States House of Representatives, The Koran is not going to be on the wall of my office.” Thank you again for your email and thoughts.

Hmm, well, considering that Virgil’s not a Muslim I’d be surprised to find the Koran in his office anyway. The Washington Post sums this up better than I could:

Forget that Muslims represent a small fraction of immigrants to America. And leave aside the obvious point that Mr. Goode was evidently napping in class the day they taught the traditional American values of tolerance, diversity and religious freedom. This country’s history is rife with instances of uncivil, hateful and violent behavior toward newcomers, be they Jewish, Irish, Italian or plenty of others whose ethnicities did not jibe with some pinched view of what it means to be American. Mr. Goode’s dimwitted outburst of nativism is nothing new.

No, the real worry for the nation is that the rest of the world might take Mr. Goode seriously, interpreting his biased remarks about Muslims as proof that America really has embarked on a civilizational war against Islam. With 535 members, you’d think that Congress would welcome the presence of a single Muslim representative. Whether it can afford a lawmaker of Mr. Goode’s caliber is another question.

Please, America, realize that not everybody in Virginia is as stupid, dimwitted, and bigoted as Virgil Goode. We were once the birthplace of great men like Washington, Jefferson, Henry, Madison, and Mason.


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111 Comments

  1. The question here is why are members of our government sworn in with ANY religious text at all?

    I don’t care which one they want; I don’t want them swearing into elected office with anything but the Constitution involved. Keep these religions, whichever ones, OUT OF IT.

    Comment by Mac — December 21, 2006 @ 9:10 pm
  2. Mac makes an execellent point…no religious document should be used, only the Constitution.

    Another point worth mentioning is why is the post titled “Republican Religious Bigotry”? A few elected Republicans take this position and somehow that position represents the whole party!

    Comment by Keith — December 21, 2006 @ 9:40 pm
  3. Hear, hear, Mac — the whole Neocon con-artist line has been the false and totally un-American talking point, that “America is a Christian nation.” What utter hogwash. I’m not a practicing Christian (and neither, I’ll bet, are the majority of neo-conservatives, that swift-boatedly fading breed); and yet my great, great, great, etc. grandfather settled in Mystic, CT in the year 1630. I’m a direct Mayflower descendent, the oldest group of American settlers besides the Native Americans, so listen here, Republicans: American is a DIVERSE nation, not a Christian nation. Merry Christmas!

    Comment by Greg B — December 21, 2006 @ 9:48 pm
  4. The God of the Bible also allows slavery, including selling your own daughter as a sex slave (Exodus 21:1-11), child abuse (Judges 11:29-40 and Isaiah 13:16), and bashing babies against rocks (Hosea 13:16 & Psalms 137:9).
    Genesis 38:8-10 -”8 Then Judah said to Onan,”Lie with your brother’s wife and fulfill your duty to her as a brother-in-law to produce offspring for your brother.” 9 But Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so whenever he lay with his brother’s wife, he spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother. 10 What he did was wicked in the LORD’s sight; so he put him to death also.” Killed for not screwing his sister-in-law!!!!
    Exodus 35:2 –”2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death.”
    Deuteronomy 21:18-21 –”18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders,”This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard.” 21 Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.”

    Isaiah 13:13-16 –”13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble; and the earth will shake from its place at the wrath of the LORD Almighty, in the day of his burning anger. 14 Like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd, each will return to his own people, each will flee to his native land. 15 Whoever is captured will be thrust through; all who are caught will fall by the sword. 16 Their infants will be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses will be looted and their wives ravished.”
    Numbers 31:14-18 –”14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle. 15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.”
    Yeah…I wanna slap MY hand on THAT book and swear to it…NOT I believe in God, but I find it offensive to MY belief to attribute that work to God. As a Deist, I see the word of God in Nature as God created it and gave to the Universe and not a text given to an ethnic minority in a small section of the Middle East! To think that the whole of creation is summed up for humanity in that book is simply absurd; it defies logic and reason.
    The Dominionists http://www.theocracywatch.org/ (Rev D. James Kennedy http://www.google.com/search?q=d+james+kenned… is one of them) want the United States to be a De Facto CHRISTIAN NATION as much as Afghanistan under the Taliban was an Islamic nation.
    He is frightened by one Muslum when we should be frightened by those Christian Fundamentalists already in power!!!
    Have you ever read “It can’t happen here”?
    Read this blog…
    http://www.pastpeak.com/archives/2006/12/pent
    Now. Who wants to be sworn in on the bible?

    Comment by Rev Keith R. Wright — December 21, 2006 @ 10:15 pm
  5. It also exposes the total ignorance of most americans regarding Islamic values which in truth are closer to Christian values than any other religion and indeed surpass christian values and logic in many areas if one takes the time and trouble to investigate honestly. Ignorance of the mind and mass hysteria is a terrible thing that has been at the root of most atrocities in history. Fear is a tool of most third rate politicians to mask their own biased views and ignorance.

    Comment by Imtiaz — December 21, 2006 @ 10:25 pm
  6. Regardless of what misguided liberals and the Democrat Party thinks ours is a Christian Nation. From its founders to the present. I am an immigrant from a Moslem country and the main reason I am in this country since 1946 is that in the moderate Moslim country I’m from there was no future unless you were Moslem. I don’t think there is any good reason to change what we have done for hundreds of years in our country to accomodate a handful of immigrants Who demand we change our culture for their convenience. If they don’t believe in the Bible that is fine neither does an atheist a Hindu or a criminal and so on…. We should still demand that they take the oath on the Bible as that is meaningful to us. If they violate that oath they should suffer the consequences.

    Comment by joseph toutonghi — December 21, 2006 @ 10:36 pm
  7. how stupid can someone be. and a better question, how do we have these idiots running our country. bush, rumsfeld, goode, anybody associated with fox news…the list goes on and on

    Comment by fed up w/ america — December 21, 2006 @ 11:09 pm
  8. There is no requirement to be sworn in on a Bible or any other document for any office in the United States. It is entirely up to the person being sworn in.

    Comment by John Norton — December 21, 2006 @ 11:24 pm
  9. Why do the Christian right keep saying that we are a Christian nation. I have a question for them, why didn’t the founding father have a logo said “One Nation under Jesus” instead of one “Nation under God”. Well, that was debated, and the founding decided that it wasn’t appropriate for this country to say “One Nation under Jesus”, because that will exclude alot of people. Also the founding fathers founded this country in the age of “enlightment”, where people moving away from religion. Unlike Pat Robinson, Jerry, Jimmy Swagart, and uncle teddy, Benjamin Franklin wrote that the bible should be treated as any other piece of literature, with objective. For those who still believe that the earth is 7,000, and argue against every conceivable common sense and scientific evidence, there is no point of reading this board, because if the carbon half life didn’t convince you, this board won’t be able to convince you with any logical argument, but for other reasonable people, I have to say this, “People like Good, if they were living in the days of the holocaust, I can guarantee you 100% that they would have supported that 100%.The US should be a beacon to the other civilizations to follow, and love, because power is not muscles, power is to get people to do what you want them to do, and indeed that cannot be achieved except through leadership of freedom and values that was set by the founding.

    Comment by any — December 21, 2006 @ 11:43 pm
  10. Just because he’s Christian doesn’t mean he has to hate non-Christians. Not everything has to be so black & white–”either you are with us or against us” is so Bush and so last year!

    Comment by regular girl — December 21, 2006 @ 11:46 pm
  11. >>The question here is why are members of our government sworn in with ANY religious text at all?

    Comment by bill — December 21, 2006 @ 11:59 pm
  12. Classifying a misguided comment from a single US representative as “Republican religious bigotry” is incredibly ironic since the definition of bigotry is intolerance of a group based on prejudice.

    Comment by Urabigottoo — December 22, 2006 @ 12:07 am
  13. I thing I don’t get about Virgil’s actions is that he spoke out against Muslims and the Quran, but never stated why. All you could done was point out the hate and bigotry in the Quran. The Quran specifically and unambiguously calls Jews the “worst among creatures”, that all non-Muslims and apostates are to be killed.

    The Quran should be banned from all civilization because of the hate it contains, not because it breaks tradition.

    Virgil should speak out against Islam for the intolerance that it represents and not against Muslims. Sure Muslims will wage a Fatwa against him, but to speak the obvious truth now is a lot better than later.

    P.S. If you don’t agree with me read the Quran and the Sira(the earliest biography of Mohamed), and see for yourself how a murderous pedophile can be considered a founder of a “religion of peace”.

    Comment by mathiew — December 22, 2006 @ 12:14 am
  14. Let’s not forget that several factions of Islam have declared a “holy war” against all westerners (that’s us) and yet we welcome them into our country with open arms? Muslims are sworn to adhere to their religion. Dosen’t that mean that the muslim congressman supports this holy war? What wrong with this picture?

    Comment by chip — December 22, 2006 @ 3:10 am
  15. “Let’s not forget that several factions of Islam have declared a “holy war” against all westerners (that’s us) and yet we welcome them into our country with open arms? Muslims are sworn to adhere to their religion. Dosen’t that mean that the muslim congressman supports this holy war? What wrong with this picture? ”

    Do you believe that you should be put to death for working on the Sabbath? If you are a devout Jew you should….my point is that not everybody believes everything in their holy books…even Christians and Muslums

    Comment by Rev Keith R. Wright — December 22, 2006 @ 3:32 am
  16. To Keith: I don’t believe that bigotry represents the entire Republican party, but it is certainly more prevelant there. If you feel it unjust that the republican party has been turned into this by the religious right then do something about it. Blaming liberals for calling it like it is isn’t the answer.

    To mac: congressman are allowed to bring their own religious text to swear in by, they are not required to use any.

    To Rev keith r wright: you sir, are a bigot.

    Comment by bursesofu — December 22, 2006 @ 5:42 am
  17. Mathiew: You never read the Koran. Perhaps you heard some propaganda on Fox News.

    Unfortunately, even though I am zorastrian I had to read the Koran when I was younger as I grew up in Iran. In the Koran both Jesus and Moses are presented as prophets of god and are put at the same level as Mohammed who was also a prophet. As such, the only two religions accepted by Islam are Christianity and judaism. on the other hand, Zorastriansism (a philospohy like budism) which the entire Iranian culture is based upon is no longer practicable in Iran.

    Virgil goode is an idiot.

    Comment by jamal — December 22, 2006 @ 6:09 am
  18. Something that I’ve been advocating recently — but few people understand that it is not a joke but is serious — is for the swearing-in to be done not with any religious text at all, but with the congressional oath-taker’s finger stuck firmly up his own bunghole. This completely prevents any question of nonseparation of church and state, while maintaining the focus of all involved.

    Comment by frank burns — December 22, 2006 @ 7:48 am
  19. I am not a Christian, but I reserve the right to dislike Islam. This ideas that we have to be tolerant of all beliefs and that diversity is somehow intrinsically good (based on who knows what is silly. Last I looked we were still allowed to make value judgements on anything and anybody. I happen to find most manifestations of Islam reprehensible. Maybe if they would stop blowing themselves and innocent people up, rioting about cartoons, and being involved in 95% of all global conflicts, I might take a different view. I don’t believe Islam is compatable with the Constitutional guarantees of free speech, free press, free exercise of religion. If a religion calls for the replacement of the laws of men with the laws of God, then we have a problem. It is interesting that I can draw a picture of Jesus in a clown suit and make fun of the concept of Christanity, but to do the same thing with Mohammad puts me in danger and gets me criticized by the political left…and the liberals would be the first to be erradicated under Islamic Law. Ironic huh?

    Comment by Hubbell — December 22, 2006 @ 8:27 am
  20. Yeah, we are bombarded by “islamic values” daily on the news. When YOUR kids start getting blown up I bet we hear a different whine.

    Comment by Notableedingheart — December 22, 2006 @ 8:29 am
  21. As a un-christian, with no allegience to any form of religion, this is not about religion, this is about the spread of facist islam around the world. If more americans would wake up out of their “international nap” and see what going on around the world they would see that in the 12 “hot spots” around the globe where there is a conflict where armys are fighting, guess who is involved? No its not the US for those short sighted elitist liberals, its factions of facist islam (muslims) fighting to take over territory so they may convert area to totalitarism islam.
    What this means is why are we electing muslims to office in america, i dont care who they are, its just going to run us down to road of defeat. It might be un PC to say that, but in reality it is the truth.

    Comment by Dan Sarpentine — December 22, 2006 @ 8:29 am
  22. Reverend Wright’s comments regarding the bible reflect his faulty translation of the original, his incomplete reading of the text and his lack of understanding of the Oral Law that was given at Sinai along with the written law.

    Comment by Yaakov Watkins — December 22, 2006 @ 8:29 am
  23. P.S. I don’t give a rats backside what the koran SAYS. All I care about is what it’s “followers” DO!

    Comment by Notableedingheart — December 22, 2006 @ 8:32 am
  24. Seriously, after September 11th, any nation that was not insane would have halted all muslim immigration. We have absolutely no obligation to let them in. They come here at our whim. September 11th was far more than enough cause to bar the whole lot of them.

    God Bless Virgil Goode! I have called his office and given my thanks.

    Comment by pjgoober — December 22, 2006 @ 8:34 am
  25. This website came up on my morning Google news search. Congratulations. A brief look around seems to indicate a libertarian bent to it, and I see the names of Henry, Jefferson, et al, bandied about. They would, of course, die of despair to see what’s become of our country, but I also suspect that most, if not all, contributors to this blog would despair if they were magically transported to the United States of 1787.

    That’s another subject, but it does lead into the one at hand. There is a big difference between live and let live, and being unencumbered by government. The latter is true freedom to me and is what your “forebears” sought. The former leads to problems, eventually. If you don’t think so, try looking sometime just at the portions of the United States Code designed to protect “freedoms” and “rights”. I don’t feel free when demands are made of me by whatever group. Those demands are now codified, ad nauseum, in the our laws, and they affect me in my daily life, especially if I am a businessman. That’s the current environment of identity politics and entitlement in which we live.

    Mr. Goode only has the brass to say what a lot of Americans feel in their bones. This is a big, big, impending problem for us. Why? Well, just look at other countries with significant Muslim populations; a good example would be Holland, probably a model of tolerance and freedom for your contributors. The problem is, the Muslim population there doesn’t care about all that, as recent events have shown. And I don’t mean the extremists, either. The average non-Muslim Dutchman is probably not feeling so free right now.

    Is Mr. Ellison one of these Muslims? I doubt it, but that’s not the point. Forget about the extremes of Islam and look at the big picture. When Detroit is 60 per cent Muslim, do you think anyone will be free there? Do you think that population of Muslims will somehow think and act differently from those in Europe? I don’t. I think I will have to be very careful what I say or print, and how my wife and daughter dress. I think I will have to swim in segregated pools at the park, and that my wife won’t be able to exercise with me at the gym. No telling what my children will be required to learn in school. Will the local ordinances forbid the posting of images offensive to Muslims? All of this in the name of tolerance and respect, of course.

    Am I “stupid” or a “bigot” for worrying about this? Emphatically, no. We have to wake up to the fact that Muslims on the whole are not accepting of secularism, and are not interested in integrating into our, or any other, society. Comparisons to migrations of Italians, Jews, Irish are spurious. Migration of significant numbers of Muslims to this country WILL cause problems, and WILL result in loss of freedoms. This is a new problem, not faced before, and, believe me, it is going to get much worse.

    Benjamin West

    Comment by Benjamin West — December 22, 2006 @ 8:42 am
  26. To all liberals, conservatives, independents, or whatever your affiliation, who think the Bible, Quran, or any other religious device be banned from all government proceedings, remember this; the U.S. Constitution guarentees us a freedom of religion, not a freedom “from” religion.  Even though I am a practicing christian, and I believe this country was founded on christian principals, I am forced to disagree with Congressman Goode.  If the Quran, the Bible, or any other religion’s equivalent is what someone holds sacred enough to take an oath over, so be it.  At the end of the day this really is a non-issue, because no matter what a politician holds sacred, when all is said and done, he (or she) is still a politician and can’t be trusted regardless of their beliefs.  God bless you all, wether you like it or not.

    Comment by Dan — December 22, 2006 @ 8:44 am
  27. Call me an Islamophobe if you will: I am afraid of electing Muslim’s into power because…

    1.) Almost none of them ever speak out against the terrorists who commit crimes in Allah’s name.
    2.) They’ll virtually never condemn acts of terrorism by people within their own religeon or even acknowedge it as an Islamic problem.
    3.) As a religeon of peace they always seem awfully afraid of offending fellow muslims who don’t exactly square with their extremists views.
    4.) They never denounce the abomanable eventuality of their world under the oppressive Sharia laws. (which they are taught is their duty to usher into a one world government)
    5.) As American’s themselves they never express dismay or moral indignation against ANY Muslim leaders who are speaking out against fellow Americans!

    I also take notice that when-ever a prominent Muslim (this senator included) are given a voice or chance to speak out about the Muslim extrememits who Do cut off or BLOWUP the bodies and heads of the infidell DAILY. (who can you blame when they won’t even admit to a public dialog with fellow extremists Muslim’s.) without their lives being threatened.

    No, the only dialog they want is how BAD religeous bigotry against Muslims has become in America.
    I’m sick of it.
    Yeah, that scares me… and until it changes… no I don’t want them governing over me or my land.

    Comment by Richard Stradling — December 22, 2006 @ 8:45 am
  28. I am an independent–not a rep. or dem.
    If ;you as an elected official are not sure of your ability to serve America by placing your hand on the instrument (Bible) that has been used to swear in all elected officials since the beginning of America then do not take the office. As to a Christian nation — we were born under the banner of a Christian nation as I pray as long as we are a Nation we will remain that way. The diversication that tears our country apart leads me to remember the words uttered by the priemer of Russia years ago. “We will never have to fight America–you will destroy yourself from within”. Did he know us better than we know ourselves???????????

    Comment by Jim Matthews — December 22, 2006 @ 8:53 am
  29. Call me an Christianophobe if you will: I am afraid of electing Christian’s into power because…

    1.) Almost none of them ever speak out against the terrorists who commit crimes in God’s name.
    2.) They’ll virtually never condemn acts of terrorism by people within their own religeon or even acknowedge it as a Christian problem.
    3.) As a religeon of peace they always seem awfully afraid of offending fellow christians who don’t exactly square with their extremists views.
    4.) They never denounce the abomanable eventuality of their world under the oppressive Old Testament laws. (which they are taught is their duty to usher into a one world government)
    5.) As American’s themselves they never express dismay or moral indignation against ANY Christian leaders who are speaking out against fellow Americans!

    I also take notice that when-ever a prominent Christian (this senator included) are given a voice or chance to speak out about the Chrsitian extrememits who Do picket funearls or BLOWUP the abortion clinics. (who can you blame when they won’t even admit to a public dialog with fellow extremists Christian’s.) without their lives being threatened.

    No, the only dialog they want is how BAD religeous bigotry against Christians has become in America.
    I’m sick of it.
    Yeah, that scares me… and until it changes… no I don’t want them governing over me or my land.

    Comment by Stradling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 8:54 am
  30. The OFFICIAL swearing in takes place without any religious artifacts. What all the huff is about is a PRIVATE swearing in that takes place AFTER the official one. This second swearing in is a private matter and what Book, if any, a congressman chooses to put his or her hand on is an equally private matter. Whatever happened to tolerance? We are not a Christian nation, we are a democractic nation with religious freedom. Oh, do save us from the holly!

    Comment by Stanley Feldsott — December 22, 2006 @ 8:54 am
  31. I am going to keep it short and sweet.

    If you are tired of the way America is run or our values or beliefs, feel free to move to another country, preferavly a third world one, and see how good they have it.

    Comment by Matthew Mehesy — December 22, 2006 @ 8:58 am
  32. >
    Being English I think the real worry should be that the rest of the world will consider America a land full of imbeciles like Mr. Goode. I find it hard to use the word “serious” when his statement seems to read “we didn’t massacre all those Indians just to let the Arabs tell us how to run things”.

    Comment by Mr. Smith — December 22, 2006 @ 8:58 am
  33. After reading all of the responses so far, I have come to the conclusion that… Who cares? Quit trying to make this into something more than it is. That, is a stupid, uninformed rant only meant to ausuage his constiuants. Virgil has obviously adopted the views of his backwoods district, and if you read his Bio, seems to be a very confused man. Check out his district, the best part of which is the B.R. parkway and a few good wineries!
    Leave it alone and it will go away. We have way to many things that need our attention and efforts. He may be a Dink, but he is a harmless Dink.

    Comment by Bill — December 22, 2006 @ 8:59 am
  34. In fact, no book of any kind (not the Bible, not the Koran) is used at the official swearing in of members of Congress. Only at subsequent public ceremonial affairs does anyone use the Bible; using any such text is purely optional, and such use is not at all universal.

    I am a Virginian, and I find Rep. Goode’s statements evidence of a small mind, whether he actually believes what he says, or whether he is merely pandering to ignorance and intolerance for political gain.

    Comment by John — December 22, 2006 @ 9:00 am
  35. Simple and straight forward…R?chard Stradling, you’re an idiot! Not enough time to explain this to you at this time…but maybe after the holiday season.

    Comment by Robert Moore — December 22, 2006 @ 9:03 am
  36. f ;you as an elected official are not sure of your ability to serve America by placing your hand on the instrument (Bible) that has been used to swear in all elected officials since the beginning of America then do not take the office.

    Mr. Matthews, you’re mistaken.

    Congressional officials are not explicitly required to swear on any religious text when taking office, nor have they ever been required to do so.

    They may choose to if they wish, but Article VII of the Constitution specifically forbids requiring faith in any religion for government service.

    Comment by Stradling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 9:03 am
  37. I am ashamed to be American sometimes. People struggle to be PC to the extent of hilarity. The Koran should be burned and outlawed in the US. Do you people know what the Muslim religion is? Mr. Goode is absolutely correct and actaully has the backbone to say it. Mr. Ellison should be banished from any involement in US government. I guess it will take another attck by Muslims for some of you to figure that out…even then I doubt it.

    Comment by Don Johnson — December 22, 2006 @ 9:04 am
  38. I am ashamed to be American sometimes. People struggle to be PC to the extent of hilarity. The Bible should be burned and outlawed in the US. Do you people know what the Christian religion is? Mr. Ellison is absolutely correct and actaully has the backbone to say it. Mr. Goode should be banished from any involement in US government. I guess it will take another attck by Christians for some of you to figure that out…even then I doubt it.

    Comment by Stradling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 9:06 am
  39. This is not an issue about religious bigotry. This is an issue about conserving America’s values. The reason the Quran should not be used to swear in this congressional representative is because its values are completely incompatible with the American Constitution. Moreover, if the idiot criticizing Virgil in this post took the time to read the Quran and do his homework on Islam and its history he might see why this is so important. The Quran justifies lying to the Infidel Quran 3:28 and 16:106. If demands holy war against anyone who does not acknowledge Allah as the one true God. I’m so sick and tired of people play this “bigotry” and “racist” card. This is bs! Virgil Goode has a great point and I stand behind him all the way. Its not “bigotry” to worry about the future and security of our nation. It’s ignorant and dangerous to keep hiding behind this PC fog that we have been hiding behind for far too long. It’s been almost 6 years since Muhammad’s goons killed 3000 of our own innocent civilians. ITS TIME AMERICA WAKES UP! This Jihad ideology is more dangerous then Nazi Germany. Unless you want to start praying towards Mecca 5 times a day and want to see your daughters in a burqa, I suggest we stop believing these comfortable falsehoods about Islam and wake up and face the truth. Islam is not a religion of Peace; it is not compatible with democracy or liberty. It is not compatible with any of the values any of us Americans hold dear! Just look at the Middle East! 1400 years of tyranny ruled under ISLAM!

    Comment by No Quran — December 22, 2006 @ 9:11 am
  40. what ever happened concerning christian terrorists, bombing abortion centers?

    in the 1600′s we had witch hunts and killings of persons who were proclaimed witches, by the “holier than thou” christians!, the more things change the more they stay the same.

    Christians 3000+ Muslims 655,000… DEAD

    KNOW WHAT I MEAN VERN!

    Comment by bill — December 22, 2006 @ 9:14 am
  41. This is not an issue about religious bigotry. This is an issue about conserving America’s values. The reason the Bible should not be used to swear in this congressional representative is because its values are completely incompatible with the American Constitution. Moreover, if the idiot criticizing Ellison in this post took the time to read the Bible and do his homework on Christianity and its history he might see why this is so important. The Bible forbidy wearing clothes made of different fibers Dueteronomy 19:19 I’m so sick and tired of people play this “bigotry” and “racist” card. This is bs! Keith Ellison has a great point and I stand behind him all the way. Its not “bigotry” to worry about the future and security of our nation. It’s ignorant and dangerous to keep hiding behind this PC fog that we have been hiding behind for far too long. It’s been almost 4 years since Bush’s goons killed at least 30000 innocent civilians. ITS TIME AMERICA WAKES UP! This Christianist ideology is more dangerous then Nazi Germany. Unless you want to start praying every day and want to see your daughters in ankle-length dresses all the time, I suggest we stop believing these comfortable falsehoods about Christianity and wake up and face the truth. Christianity is not a religion of Peace; it is not compatible with democracy or liberty. It is not compatible with any of the values any of us Americans hold dear! Just look at the Middle Ages! 1000 years of tyranny ruled under CHRISTIANITY!

    Comment by Stradling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 9:16 am
  42. A Good Muslim following the Koran “cannot” be a Good American.
    Do you remember?
    In 1968 Bobby Kennedy was shot and killed by?
    In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred by?
    In 1979, the US embassy in Iran was taken over by?
    During the 1980′s a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by?
    In 1983, the US Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by?
    In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked and a 70 year old American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard in his wheelchair by?
    In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens , and a US Navy diver trying to rescue passengers was murdered by?
    In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by?
    In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by?
    In 1998, the US embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by?
    On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked; two were used as missiles to take out the World Trade Centers and of the remaining two, one crashed into the US Pentagon and the other was diverted and crashed by the passengers. Thousands of people were killed by?
    In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against?
    In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by?
    In 2004, the Spain Railway bombings were linked to?
    In 2005, the London Railway bombings were linked to?

    ANSWER TO ALL THE ABOVE:
    Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.

    Not All Muslims are intent on destroying America and other Countries that don’t follow Islam, just the Islamic Fascists. Islam is simply a dangerous and violent religion.

    Comment by TheTruth — December 22, 2006 @ 9:20 am
  43. I am going to keep it short and sweet.

    If you are tired of the way America is run or our values or beliefs, feel free to move to another country, preferavly a third world one, and see how good they have it.

    I absolutely agree. It time to start deporting the religous right. People came to the new world to get away from people IMPOSING their religous will upon them. I say, I will not leave MY land. I say deport those who would IMPOSE their religous will on ME. Ban the Church.

    Comment by Matthew Mehesy — December 22, 2006 @ 9:21 am
  44. The greatest threat to America today is organized religion of every kind!

    Comment by Allen — December 22, 2006 @ 9:23 am
  45. You all deserve each other.

    Comment by rachel — December 22, 2006 @ 9:23 am
  46. Not All Muslims are intent on destroying America and other Countries that don’t follow Islam, just the Islamic Fascists. Islam is simply a dangerous and violent religion.
    Comment by TheTruth

    Do we really need to list all the tragedies perpetrated by violent Christian extremists between the ages of 17 and 40?

    People are dangerous and violent, period.

    Comment by Stradling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 9:25 am
  47. If you read the Constitution closely you will find that the seperation of Church and State was for the protection of the Church from the State, NOT the other way around.

    Comment by Doug — December 22, 2006 @ 9:27 am
  48. Stradling Richard,

    your and effing idiot! Get a clue moron! 3 events in history perpetrated by “christian extremists” AND, how about this buddy? THE CRUSADES WERE A DEFFENSIVE WAR AGAINST ISLAMIC OPPRESSION OF THE CHRISTIANS AND JEWS IN JERUSALUM! Omygoodness what are they teaching kids these days?! There have been more the 6000 terrorists attacks since 9/11 that have been documented. I seriously cant believe the ignorance of people on this thread. If this is what America has been reduced to, we are doomed. We cant afford to be this naive! Pick up a book and read!

    Comment by No Quran — December 22, 2006 @ 9:38 am
  49. I am afraid. Too many Americans don’t know what American means anymore. Jesus, if you’re there, please protect me from your followers.

    Comment by Jim — December 22, 2006 @ 9:39 am
  50. There have been more the 6000 terrorists attacks since 9/11 that have been documented.

    Sounds like your guy Bush is doing a lousy job of protecting us since 9/11, then, doesn’t it?

    By the way dude, you’re coming off as seriously unhinged. Take a chill pill.

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 9:40 am
  51. Republican Religious Bigotry

    America was never a “Christian” Nation! It had always been a Pagan Country, just like Pagan Rome in the 1st century!

    The Framers of the US Constitution were mostly Freemasons and deists who believe in many gods whom the Freemasons call JAHBULON, a representation of 3 gods namely, OSIRIS, BAAL and YAHWEH! {You guys don’t have to believe me on this 1; check it out yourselves and merely google JAHBULON and you will find out yourselves!)

    There is no basis for GOPhers to claim that America is a christian country unless these GOPhers publicly admit that they worship OSIRIS and BAAL too!

    [Oh the 10 commandments were NOT handed to moses by a god. Moses merely copied them from the EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD which had been in existence since 2500 BCE in hieroglyphic form] You folks have been fooled BIG TIME!

    Comment by Bill Romer — December 22, 2006 @ 9:45 am
  52. I don’t care whether someone swears in on the Bible, the Koran, or a dictionary. What matters is that the individual recognizes that he is answerable to some higher authority. Realizing that he is taking his oath before the people and his God, he is swearing to defend and uphold the laws and Constittuion of these United States. Treat everyone fairly and equally, regardless of race, creed, or national origin. Should he fail in this Oath as does Virgil Goode, he should be removed from office immediately.

    Comment by WilliamStromire — December 22, 2006 @ 9:46 am
  53. Goode apologize. Not only “no”, but “Hell, no”. The Koran (or the Bible for that matter) has as much place in Congress as an anthrax letter.

    Comment by Charles M. Haynes — December 22, 2006 @ 9:53 am
  54. Just because i believe we are in a serious fight with Islam doesnt mean i support Bush. Infact i cant stand the man. I dont think hes doing enough. Hes doing our nation a great diservice by assmuming Islam is peaceful.

    Have any of you ever even lived in a muslim country? Do you even know what they do to the chinese christians in Indonesia? This may disgust alot of you(as it should)but they have raped these woman and stuffed shards of glass into their vaginal canal! Then they roll our their carpet and pray to Allah, while they cut the heads off of other christians they shout Allahu Akbar! Again, America cannot afford to be as naive as mr Richard here.

    Comment by No Quran — December 22, 2006 @ 9:57 am
  55. Not all Muslims are terrorist, but ALL terrorist are Muslims

    Comment by No Muslim — December 22, 2006 @ 10:05 am
  56. Since when are Biblical values consistent with American ones? I’ve never found the Bible to be a champion text for free speech, freedom of religion, gender equality, democracy, private property, or the right to bear arms. There’s not much in either Testament to support the kind of government we have today. And Christian leaders seem to agree, considering their zeal to turn our government into a Christian one. It’s a ridiculous fallacy that this country has been a Christian one from its inception. This country has been a democracy since its inception. It was also based on concepts that came out of the French Revolution. I suppose I could run around calling this a French country since its inception? Ridiculous.

    The founding fathers were Deists, a sect of scientific Christians that you evangelicals would likely abhor. Thomas Jefferson wrote his own scientific, logical version of the Bible. He’s famous for his scrutiny of religion:

    “Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear.”

    No one has to agree with the views of the Deist founding fathers, but it’s sheer ignorance and stupidity to claim they shared modern evangelical beliefs. How about you pick up some history books, some biographies, some collections of letters, or even look at a few quotes from the men who established our country instead of thumping those Bibles?

    Evangelicals are every bit as enthused about conquering this government as extremist Muslims. It’s not an either or–both are dangerous as hell and must be stopped. It’s not a sectarian thing, it’s religion. It’s the showdown of the millennium: Judeo-Christianity versus Islam! Who will rule the world? Who will secure the Holy Land for God? Who’s values are supreme? Who will silence the infidels more effectively? SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY! The founding fathers attempted to establish a country based on reason. They were products of the Enlightenment. That country is all but gone now, and while extremist Muslims are certainly a danger, they’re not to blame for the dissolution of the profound ideology that made this country so unique and so righteous. Take the log out of your own eye and submit to the separation of church and state that was absolutely and without question deemed necessary to a free society by the founding fathers.

    America was based on the most just and revolutionary ideas this world has EVER seen, but it’s becoming the very thing the founding fathers fled. If you think reactionary Muslim extremists are the biggest enemy this country faces, you must not have heard the old frog in a pot anecdote:

    “Put a frog in a pot of boiling water, and he’ll jump right out. Put a frog in a pot of cold water and bring it to boil, and he’ll cook to death slowly.”

    Comment by Katie — December 22, 2006 @ 10:10 am
  57. Ah, “No Quran” has played the ever-succesful “stuffing vaginas with broken glass” card.

    It’s fascinating to see the psychological traces of misogyny creep into the wacko right-wing screeds.

    How do you sleep at night with that much hate seething in your mind?

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 10:21 am
  58. “If you read the constitution closely, you will find that the separation of Church from State was for the protection of the Church form the State, NOT the other way around”

    Doug, my dear, the seperation of Church from State was meant to protect ONE CHURCH FROM ANOTHER, thereby ensuring that everyone is able to freely practice their various chosen religions without persecution. The reason the founders framed this in terms of seperating Church from State is simple: historically, monarchies throughout Europe had adopted a single religion (or a single Church) as the official state religion, resulting in intolerance and persecution of all those who did not subscribe. This is in fact exactly what’s going on throughout the Muslim world today, and can be seen in its worst and most barbaric forms in precisely those countries which have adopted Muslim law in place of secular ones.

    Jim, though I’m not Christian (maybe I could replace “Jesus” with “Moses?), I’m with you!

    Comment by Diane — December 22, 2006 @ 10:27 am
  59. He is a jerk. He plays to the crazies so that the left crazies and the right crazies will fight. If they continue to fight then the jerks (left and right) can continue to screw us. They used to say that The old Mayor Daley kept the Pollacks and the Blacks fighting so the Irish could run the city. Now is is the extreme left and extreme right fighting so nothing will be done.

    Comment by Padget McGuir — December 22, 2006 @ 10:32 am
  60. I would rather have someone swear an oath by something they believe in rather than something they do not believe in. Why would I believe a muslim who swore an oath on the bible any more than a christian who swore an oath on the koran or, for that matter, an atheist who swore on a book of fiction?

    This Goode guy is not a very good guy! Nor is he very bright.

    Comment by Chris — December 22, 2006 @ 10:42 am
  61. …he’s not a racist, he’s just right.

    Islam is NO friend to Christian America…what’s left of it, that is.

    It seems nowadays that white people can’t say ANYthing about Islam, blacks (the most racist race in America, but what THEY say about whites is not reported), browns, illegal immigrants, pervert “gays” (Sodomites) and so on, without being called bigots/racists/intolerant.

    It’s not racist if it’s true. Nor is it intolerant or bigoted. It’s just true. TRUTH is a defense for all those ignorant charges.

    To hell with Islam…and all the other trash in this country named above.

    John Dechon
    El Paso, TX

    Comment by John Dechon — December 22, 2006 @ 10:45 am
  62. John Dechon is clearly a closeted gay man.

    Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 10:51 am
  63. personally I believe that our constitution and bill of rights are stronger then Islam or any religion. It really makes me wonder what has gone wrong with the U.S., when I see so many of us willing to take away the freedoms and liberties of others that these documents defend, in the name of defending these same documents. If we allow liberties and freedoms to be taken from some of us, it wont be belong before all of us start losing them.

    Comment by Phalanx — December 22, 2006 @ 10:55 am
  64. I agree with the suggestion that any swearing in should be done on the Constitution itself. I also like the ancient Greek practice of swearing officials OUT of office–then charging them with perjury for any malfeasance while in office.

    The Founding Fathers tried to keep organized religion out of government, but they assumed that everyone was a devout Christian just like they were, so the separation was honored more in the paperwork than in practice. Actually, early laws called for the death penalty for anyone who not only wasn’t Christian but WAS a Catholic! We’ve come a way since then, and hopefully can go even further in our broad-mindedness.

    Dennis Prager is ranting on the radio right now that only deists, Jews and Christians can be moral, that non-believers who claim to be moral change the standards by which they live from day to day. That’s ridiculous. A letter in the paper today also warns that Congress may one day be “flooded” with Muslims, and then what?! If we get overrun by a Muslim majority that nevertheless supported the Constitution, then I’d think they’d be entitled to swear on the Quaran if they so chose.

    I think the Congressman’s religious beliefs were well known to his constituency during his campaign, so his preferring to swear on the Quaran instead of a Bible probably is no surprise to them, and it certainly has more credibility in view of the intention of such oaths.

    At the same time, what does taking an oath accomplish, anyway? If one is going to lie, one is just as likely to lie while taking an oath. Swearing to tell the truth in court is silly–let the jury decide by other testimony and the evidence if the witness is telling the truth. What a waste of time to ask him to swear that he is telling the the truth.

    Just like it’s a meaningless waste of time to ask someone to swear by tenets that he doesn’t subscribe to.

    Comment by Tango — December 22, 2006 @ 10:56 am
  65. No Muslim – I was not aware that Timothy McVeigh and his pals were Muslims. Furthermore, there are many non-Muslim terrorist organizations thoughout the world – the IRA, the Tamil Tigers, Black September, the Aum Shinrikyo Cult, to name but a few. Congratulations – you’re an even bigger idiot than Virgil Goode!

    Comment by Diane — December 22, 2006 @ 10:59 am
  66. As a boss of Rep. elect Ellison (that is one of those that have a vote is his district)What makes me mad is his grandstanding. He released the information about his cerimonal oath on the Koran knowing full well that the right wing being wing nuts would jump all over it.

    Congressman you represent us not Islam not the imams not anyone else. I am judging you and your actions. I speak with a vote and this brewhaha you have caused will be remembered by those with a vote. Just do your job! You are replacing a person whom would have been a commitee chair so you have a lot to live up to and if you fail the judgement will be to fire you and what ever books you bring with you.

    Comment by A Voter in the Minnesota 5th — December 22, 2006 @ 11:00 am
  67. P.S. Diane you are correct except Black September is a muslim group they were the Palistinian org that killed the Israelis at Munich. Sorry you shoud fact check as well:-)

    Comment by A Voter in the Minnesota 5th — December 22, 2006 @ 11:05 am
  68. Voter in the Minnesota 5th – point well taken and conceded (I should have left it out altogether, as I wasn’t completely sure).

    I think Phalanx makes a good point: People are willing to take away the freedoms and liberties of others that these documents defend, in the name of defending those same documents, just as they are willing to commit atrocities against each other in the name of defending a supposedly all-powerful and merciful God…

    Comment by Diane — December 22, 2006 @ 11:19 am
  69. Matthew Mehesy:
    “It time to start deporting the religous right.”

    I missed the part where Virgil Goode called for the deportation of muslims already here. Deporting people and not letting a group of people immigrate are two different things. The latter is well within our rights. People immigrate at our whim. If we can get even a tiny gain from barring all muslims (keeping in mind that experiencing less September 11ths is far more than a tiny gain) we should do so.

    Comment by pjgoober — December 22, 2006 @ 12:12 pm
  70. pjgoober is absolutely right.

    Next we can stop blacks from immigrating, so we’ll have fewer people to worry about the next time New Orleans drowns.

    After that, we can stop the Jews from coming in, so the remaining Muslims won’t have anybody to hate.

    And after that, we can keep the French out because, well, just because.

    I salute you and your genius, pjgoober. America needs more True Patriots like yourself.

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 12:34 pm
  71. I see very little difference between Islam and Christianity. They are both religions based on hate and intolerance. Anyone who calls the Koran “violent” and not the Bible is obviously not reading the whole Bible. It is full of calls to violence against non believers (many of which were referenced by other posters in this thread).

    Comment by JSS — December 22, 2006 @ 12:56 pm
  72. The saddest thing is that the people in this thread can’t see the bile and hatred they’re spewing in the name of their beliefs, against the beliefs of others.

    Hatred is an ugly thing.

    Comment by Kelly — December 22, 2006 @ 1:00 pm
  73. Straddling Richard, you are arguing that Islam is morally equivalent to Christianity. When people post criticisms of Islam, you just cut and paste a new post and replace the word “Islam” with “Christianity”.

    But it’s a false argument.

    When Christians have committed acts of violence, the entire understanding is that they have done so out of a spiritual and moral failure. That’s the underpinning message of Christianity – that people are just human and commit shameful acts but they can repent and heal themselves. It’s a message of love.

    You’ll never hear of priests convinving young boys not only to kill themselves, but to kill as many non-Christians as possible. That may have happened, but when so it is always seen by Christians as a failure of faith – not an act of it.

    You cannot replace in the word “Muslims” and “Islam” in the above paragraph. The position of Islam is that you MUST spread it, by violence if necessary. That’s Jihad which literally means “Holy War”. The moderate Muslims tone the meaning of Holy War to being a spirital “war” with ones failings. But this brings it more into a Christian existential view.

    After all, it was the separation of Church and State arose in Christian nations. The only way to argue against Christianity is with the values that came into the world through Christianity – respect and value of the individual over society (symbolized in the Passion), the importance of tolerance, the importance of love over all other emotions or mindsets, and so on.

    Islam is not a religion of love. T.E. Lawrence in the desert once retells a moment he nearly spit his tea out once when he heard an Arab speak of love because he had never heard an Arab speak of God in terms of love.

    But the thing is, as Christians we must be tolerant, but we are also human beings who do not want to get killed. Christianity has no easy answers. But it’s a damn sight better than Islam.

    Comment by Carter — December 22, 2006 @ 1:03 pm
  74. YO Jamal,

    Why are you attacking me, why not anything that I said?

    The quran never mentions Jesus, it mentions Isa who is supposedly Jesus, and all it does is butcher every Jesus stood for. In Islam Jesus was muslim, never died, and hated Jews just like Mohamed. There is nothing true about the quran, it is just a bunch of random trash piled together with plagirised and twisted Bible stories.

    Virgil has not proven himself an idiot yet. If you speaks out against the Hate of the quran and the Islam Mohamed preached and not the delusional version the muslim congress men follows, than Virgil in my eyes would be a true politician.

    Mohamed was a pedophile, who had sex with a 9 year old girl, waged 70 raids , which were against defense merchants and tribes that the only fault they did was speak against him. They laughed at Mohamed the same way that I do because any rational person would do so as well.

    You are not a Zorasrian, your are as muslim as it gets. I have argued with many muslims about their pathetic cult, and I have ran into some who lie about their faith to credit Islam. Once a muslim pretended to be a Hindu and was trying to show how Mohamed’s pedophilia was a true prophetic act.

    Christianity and Jeudism are not seen as religions at all. Jews and Christians are seen as second hand humans because they never followed the “last revelation” to humankind. The quran insults Jews time after time, and calls “Islam the only accepted religion”, so what you say is absolute garbage.

    lets look at the tolerant quran, to see what it says about the Jews:

    Qur’an 4:55 “Sufficient for the Jew is the Flaming Fire!”

    *note: this verse is out of context, but read The Sira by Ibn Ishaq to see that this verse is at the core of Islam.

    Comment by Mathiew — December 22, 2006 @ 1:05 pm
  75. i dont blame this idiot for his comment about islam. is true it freithning to the poeple who oppose the value of our great nation .
    but id too bad , he has to deal with it, and yes, they will be more muslims elected to senators…..but the good news, that this muslims trying hard to leave in peace with there citizens basic in sharing respect and love to each other.and may god bless all americans who shares this values……peace :)

    Comment by hicham — December 22, 2006 @ 1:08 pm
  76. .

    In the year 570 AD a man was born.

    In a period of 63 years, this man and his followers raised enormous armies, bringing forth a new age of power and might.

    Islam was born.

    By 720 this mighty Muslim army swept into EUROPE as far north as the Rhine river!

    VICTORY FOR ISLAM IS AT HAND YOU INFIDELS!

    Yet were it not for Charles Martel who defeated them at the Battle of Tours….Europe, Britain, and those Founding Fathers you speak so fondly of would not exist.

    Nor would the freedom to read and write so freely.

    Islam is violence at its very core.

    Its origins -are- violent.

    Christ, himself, taught and was killed for peace–and in many respects rejected the Old Testament Hammarabis code, wrath of god approach that Islam very mucy embodies.

    If there are bigots in this world, I would rather side with those who naturally prejudge a religion so mired in violence–so drenched in blood.

    Could you call our own Crusades violent? Or would you call them a means to fight back and tack back the lands of peacable Jews and Christians….from the yoke of Islamic oppression.

    History is a vitamen few get enough of.

    When you know real history, you mind works properly.

    I can forgive a congressman for his fear.

    It is a fear rightly founded.

    Comment by Common Sense — December 22, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
  77. Mohamed was a pedophile, who had sex with a 9 year old girl,

    I’m glad that Christianity has protected us from pedophilia so far.

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 1:22 pm
  78. What hooey. I used to be a classical liberal, and an athiest, and it made no sense. Where do rights come from? You can’t just place them in the individuals, because rights have to do with INTERACTION between individuals, so you need something that transcends them both, or at least includes them both. Remove the spiritual dimension and you have nothng.

    Locke’s partial truths about freedom (his treatise lacks acknowledgement of the inborn OBLIGATIONS that people also have to one another) cannot be sustained without reference to a transcendant moral order, as Locke knew himself. The Koran, unfortunately, postulates an angry, threatening deity who rules by force and fear, rather than reason and love.

    The Koran IS a threat to whatever values are still maintained in our increasingly corrupt society.

    Comment by Matthew Hoffman — December 22, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
  79. Two important points: Representative-elect Keith Ellision of Minneapolis is NOT AN IMMIGRANT! He was BORN IN MICHIGAN and CONVERTED TO ISLAM while attending law school at the University of Minnesota. He’s a frickin’ city boy! Secondly, Repblican President Teddy Roosevelt DID NOT USE A BIBLE when he was sworn in. Neither did John Adams and two others. Some chose law books, Teddy the environmentalist, DIDN’T USE ANYTHING.

    Comment by Brent — December 22, 2006 @ 2:43 pm
  80. “I’m glad that Christianity has protected us from pedophilia so far.” ?? Sure, as told by Jim Swaggart. and a few Catholic Priests, etc! How naive and stupid can you get??!

    IN any event, what is clear is The Decider saying “I am not a divider, I am a uniter” in the Gore debates should have been “I am a liar and a divider” because the entire nation has been polarized; and intolerance and ignorance has been made a virtue.

    How sad that leaders have made division a tool for political gain, rather than preaching tolerance and mutual respect of our greater humanities.

    Comment by Bill McHenry — December 22, 2006 @ 2:47 pm
  81. I hail Common Sense’s comments. The congressman being slammed here for his politically incorrect, intolerant position, is brave enough to speak the truth and cares enough about this nation to do so..

    Islam is not like Christianity in ANY way. The God they serve is not our God.

    Comment by Ed — December 22, 2006 @ 2:49 pm
  82. Is anyone else missing that this really was an unjustified attack on the congressman-elect? He is an american citizen born and raised in detroit. In the 60′s, he converted to Islam while in college. He has never been an immigrant, legal or illegal. This is just another Republican using fear to stoke the fires of hatred. I personally support both. Goode has the right to be an idiot and hide behind whatever he believes, though I am ashamed that his is a congressman and Ellison has the right to practice whatever religion he chooses. I’ve written him an email showing my support and suggesting that he come out and publically support Goode for exercising his freedoms of speech and press. And as a show of good spirit and willingness to work together, send him a copy of the bible to use at his swearing in ceremony.

    Comment by Forgetting Something? — December 22, 2006 @ 2:59 pm
  83. Its almost 2007, people. Old religious documents (like the Bible and the Koran) reflect the attitudes of the era in which they were written, and if we were to take the writing literally from either of those antiquated texts, our society would have more in common with the Taliban’s Afghanistan than with modern Nation-states. Terrorism is a matter of perspective. It was awful that 3,000 people were killed by terrorists on 9/11. Its also awful that 650,000+ people have been killed by Bush’s war. Is it more acceptable to kill innocent people with bombs dropped from multi-million dollar aircraft than it is to use multi-million dollar aircraft as bombs?

    People fear what they don’t understand, hence Rep Goode’s unfortunate comments. Personally, I’m more afraid of the Conservative movement in the US than I am of any group of terrorists. Bush’s policies have resulted in more death and destruction than al-Qaeda could ever hope to accomplish.

    Comment by ins0ma — December 22, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
  84. You guys should learn how your Government works before slamming it… swearing in of new Congressmen and women does NOT involve the Bible, or any other religious text. That is done afterward only for photo-ops.

    Typical liberal ignorance of how things really work.

    Comment by You're idiots — December 22, 2006 @ 3:09 pm
  85. Geezus! A few nasty son’s a bitches knock down a couple buildings and we go off our frickin’ rocker against every muslim that ever lived.

    Not smart.

    That kind of knee jerk, stupid, fear based reaction to them is the reason they have already won. We’ve now showed them that we can’t win on the ground against them (thanks GW!). What next?

    It’s a GOOD THING (pun intended) that we have a muslim congressman, it shows that we can actually walk the walk since we’re always talking the talk.
    If the people voted the guy into office, that’s it! It was their call and they’ve made it.

    Anyone who thinks one religion is superior to another is out of their mind. It’s all just corporate branding. We all seem to need some organization to sanction our natural god given spiritual feelings.

    Sad.

    Comment by Victor Lazlo — December 22, 2006 @ 3:23 pm
  86. Typical liberal ignorance of how things really work.

    Apparently it’s conservative ignorance to not read the entire thread and realize that a bunch of ignorant liberals already made that exact point.

    Comment by Straddling Richard — December 22, 2006 @ 3:26 pm
  87. We should demand that all of our representatives and leaders adhere to the constitution and its amendments. If they do not support all the citizens that elected them, then they should be removed from office, never to be able to serve as a public servant again.
    We should demand that they balance the budget at all times unless in dire emergencies and that does not include giving massive tax breaks to the richest of the land in time of war.
    We ask our military to sacrifice even their lives and yet we give the richest of the land massive tax cuts in dividends, capital gains over and above the 4 percent plus for the top rate.
    Those making the top rate have proved to the world they do not need help in making it big.
    If we want to help those who need help then we should lower the rate of taxes charged on bank deposits.

    Comment by C. K. Justus — December 22, 2006 @ 6:40 pm
  88. In God we trust! I think it is quite clear that our founding fathers being guided by thier christian morals, chose to allow freedom for all religons.

    Say what you want but Allah is God. If you are Christian, Jesus was his son, If you are Muslim, Muhammed was his prophet. If you are Jewish, you do not believe Muhammed was a prophet of God nor Jesus was the son of God, but you believe in God.

    Mind you this is all the same God, how many misguided people, killed other blameless people in Gods name, or the Son of Gods name or for his prophet.

    God is love and Justice, people with free will, always have the ability to carry out evil, and always will. Its also up to people to face evil and with Gods help overcome temptation.

    Do not let people pervert the word of God to get you commit evil acts. Whether it be President Bush and the people he represents, or suicide bombers. Take a cue from Martin Luther King. NONVIOLENCE is the answer. Killing 600000 Iraqi people is not how to bring peace to the middle east.

    God forgive us all, and bring peace to all your people on earth!!!

    Happy Holidays Everyone!!!

    Comment by Matt — December 22, 2006 @ 7:15 pm
  89. For all you who think the Congressman is brave you are naive he is a politician and he did this to himself for publicity nothing else. It was the congressman that baited the right wing nutty’s and they bit (which reading some of you is not hard to believe). Very good Congressman you showed them there ignorant bigots.

    But we in your district don’t care about the rightwing nutty’s they don’t live here we do. we care about more funding for education in Minneapolis we care about money for better public transportation and so many more important things then your book or what you do in your office unofficially. Remember whom you are replacing and the shoe you must fill for us, you know your district the people who elected you and pay your salary!

    Ugh DO YOUR JOB AND STUFF PUBLICITY!

    Well at least you didn’t get arrested which seems to be a favorite of congressmen.

    As for those of you so concerned about being blown up I wish you would be more concerned about people being killed next time you get behind the wheel drunk since in this country that is the far more like way to die from a drunk driver and not a plane crashing into a building. Just food for thought Happy Holidays:-)

    Comment by A Voter in the Minnesota 5th — December 22, 2006 @ 7:23 pm
  90. There are so many lies you Christians keep repeating hoping it will be come true like a page out of Orwell.

    Lie: America was founded as a Christian Nation
    America was NOT founded as a Christian Nation, it was founded as a Western Enlightenment Nation. Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian, he is quoted as saying the “The Christian God is a being of terrific character – cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust”. Jefferson wrote both the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

    Lie dismissed

    Comment by J — December 23, 2006 @ 3:23 am
  91. Also, the swearing in uses NO holy book of any kind. Candidates hold a second swearing in privately. The use of the Mormon bible has been used, as has the Torah, but it is not part of the government, it is something the neo-cons dreamed up in the 70s.

    Comment by J — December 23, 2006 @ 3:24 am
  92. Oh, and “In God We Trust” is as new as the 50s and in one stamp, 1859, so again, your shit stinks, it is false, and you are too stupid to know a lie from the truth.

    Do some research and learn what America is really about, it is almost gone already.

    Comment by J — December 23, 2006 @ 3:25 am
  93. Common Sense: You know nothing of the early church. In order to get the book that is in your hands today there where assassinations and mass murder. Anyone speaking anything considered unorthodox was executed.

    What about the Dark Ages when scientists were burned at the stake? Or the crusades when they marched into the middle east.

    On Mohammed; He was a thief, brigand, rapist, and liar. Just like Paul.

    Comment by J — December 23, 2006 @ 3:29 am
  94. The United States of America is under no obligation to allow immigrants from anywhere to come to this country and set up their exclusive society. These religious fanatics intend to do just that by using our own good will, our laws and by the sword if they must. One must only look at the European example to see what will happen if this uncontrolled expansion of fanatical extremists is allowed to enter our country.

    Comment by Steven Khol — December 23, 2006 @ 3:31 am
  95. If you wish to be ruled by the sword, elect an Islamic government. Mohammad was called “the prophet of the sword”. If it makes no difference about the “religion” of elected officials, then why not move to Iran where they have an elected Islamic government.
    Look at the nations which have been built by Islamic people and then tell me that religion makes no difference.

    Comment by Marty Armstrong — December 23, 2006 @ 4:10 am
  96. JSS: Islam is a political system, Chritianity is not. That is one big difference between the two, and it the difference that is relevant to this thread.

    There are many rules in the Koran that cannot be
    implemented unless the government itself is Muslim. This is why so many Muslims want to destroy secular governments everywhere. They’re just following their religious beliefs, which are also political because Islam itself is political.

    This is the key point. US elected officials
    should be required to affirm that their first loyalty is to the US Constitution rather than to some religion. If they can’t do that, people shouldn’t vote for them.

    Comment by John — December 23, 2006 @ 4:25 am
  97. When I get elected I plan to use Mein Kampf to swear on and I hope that it is ok with everyone here since we are all into tolerance and anti-religious sentiments. Oh by the way, if you disagree with what I plan to do then I think you’re a religious intolerant bigot.

    That’s always a great way to attack someone who doesn’t agree with me instead of arguing the merits of why he might old that view. Such as the fact that the radical Islamists who are actively trying to destroy the United State (of which you so love dearly and can speak freely in) base their belief from the Koran. I’m so glad I’m in the armed forces defending your right to call others bigots because it doesn’t conform to your beliefs.

    Comment by Mark — December 23, 2006 @ 4:35 am
  98. > If you wish to be ruled by the sword, elect an
    > Islamic government. Mohammad was called “the
    > prophet of the sword”.

    Jesus was quoted as saying, “I come not in peace, but with a sword.” Of course, in this context he was saying he came to divide families and ruin homes in the name of God, which is nowhere near as violent as outright killing someone. So even though Jesus came in “peace,” he also chose to rule by the sword.

    I wonder if Mr. Goode has any comments on Joe Lieberman swearing in under a Jewish text?

    As for the whole messy situation, everything is exactly as it ought to be. Everyone is speaking freely, ideas are being debated, …freedom of speech continues to drive the progress of humanity.

    Comment by David Thomson — December 23, 2006 @ 5:17 am
  99. ALL People:

    Don’t you all have anything better to do? None of this is important. Stop being afraid, stop trying to be justified, stop trying to be “better than.” Just live, because we’re all dead in the end anyway, so enjoy the unique consciousness you’ve been given for this short time. Hopefully your journey will be good and happy, but no guarantees. Oh well. All this arguing is silly and perpetuates the illusion of our importance. Unless aruguing is your idea of fun, go do something fun. Bye.

    Comment by All this is unimportant — December 23, 2006 @ 5:18 am
  100. No one actually swears on any religious text to take office in congress. In court in Virginia, they make a point of explaining that no one will be swearing on any religious text.

    Extremists of any stripe are the true danger.

    I have a very hard time with the idea that this supposed “God” is ok with it’s followers killing each other over the details.

    That sort of activity represents a flaw in the espoused superiority of any given path that follows this God.

    We who worship Baal know better than all of your sillyness. While we’ve been off quietly living lives of peace, plenty, and comfort, you’ve been arguing with each other the whole time.

    We don’t even go in for all the chanting and jumping around you guys are still fighting over anymore either. See the thing is Baalism has trancended its idolistic origins, and is now a truly post-modernist religion.

    One of the nicest things about a Baalist today is that the faithful need not concern themselves with the odious religious posturing of other faiths. Thankfully, men like Mr. Goode serve well as exemplars of this behavior, and make it easier for everyone to see what’s left after one of these clowns falls off the turnip truck.

    Comment by Gentry — December 23, 2006 @ 5:31 am
  101. Please, we are not a “Christian” nation. That little thing about “turning the other cheek”? “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”? “When you pray, go into your closet”? “Remember the Sabath and keep it holy”? We don’t even keep our own tenets. Honestly, the “christians” I know aren’t that different from the “non-christians” I know. If fact, they tend to be a little more bloodthirsty than average. They are just as greedy, just as dishonest, just as unfaithful, as the rest of us mortals. In fact, the only sect I can think of that actually practices their religion are the Amish. Remember how quickly they forgave the murderer of their children? They also don’t proslytize, they let their lives speak for their religion. Don’t think the average “christian” would feel the least bit comfortable in their little world.
    Personaly, I’m a “born again agnostic”. Don’t really know if there is a God or not, not sure I want to believe in the god most modern people claim as their own.
    By the way, there may be many gods, the bible says there are. Right there in the very first of the ten commandments it says “Thou shalt have no other gods before me”. Other gods! Ours wants to be first! Well, don’t we all.

    Comment by Burgette — December 23, 2006 @ 5:32 am
  102. The text of atricle 11 from the Treaty of Tripoli signed by American President John Adams:
    “Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.”

    Note the first sentence and that this is from 1796. John Adams, you may remember WAS one of the Founding Fathers. Let this be an example of the religious bias and then end of this christian nation crap…

    Comment by Forgetting Something? — December 23, 2006 @ 8:37 am
  103. When 80% of the country claims they are Christian, that in and of itself makes us a Christian nation–despite what the anti-Christian minority says…

    Comment by You're idiots — December 23, 2006 @ 9:37 am
  104. “When 80% of the country claims they are Christian, that in and of itself makes us a Christian nation–despite what the anti-Christian minority says…”
    Wow, did you think of this before or after you wiped your ass with the Bill Of Rights? There is no one religion here in America. If you would like a solely Christian Country, buy an Island and move there. Your 80% might make this a Christian Majority country but it no more makes us a “Christian nation” than 80% white people makes this a “White Nation”…

    Comment by Forgetting Something? — December 23, 2006 @ 10:52 am
  105. I don’t see why Mr. Goode is worried about having a highly visible Muslim Congressman in the House. The next time we have a terrorist attack on Americans, the whole country will be listening acutely for Ellison’s take on Muslim radicalism. This will really put the Muslim community in the spotlight and force the community to take a stand, rather than sit quietly in the background. Mr. Ellison will emerge as THE Muslim spokesman in the US, whether he wants the role or not.

    Comment by David Thomson — December 23, 2006 @ 5:21 pm
  106. Common Sense: You know nothing of the early church. In order to get the book that is in your hands today there where assassinations and mass murder. Anyone speaking anything considered unorthodox was executed. What about the Dark Ages when scientists were burned at the stake? Or the crusades when they marched into the middle east. On Mohammed; He was a thief, brigand, rapist, and liar. Just like Paul. Comment by J — December 23, 2006 @ 3:29 am
    __________________________________________________

    Really J?

    You suppose I know nothing of the Middle Ages or early Church?

    In point of fact, I am a degreed historian specializing in early church history and the Middle Ages– a period very misunderstood.

    Allow me to clarify some things for you, respectfully and without ill will.

    Remember your Reformation history?

    Most religious reformists still considered themselves catholics. Even Martin Luther saw himself as a Cathlic prist till his own death.

    One of the ways that Reformists or Protestants were able to gain their strength was through both political maneuvering and propoganda. That propoganda manifested itself in many ways, some downright ridiculous such as priests secretly dining on babies!

    Other propoganda took otherwise straightforward affairs and turned them into completely overblown tales….a good example is the Inquisition.

    The original inquisition was designed to match priets and their skills (language, education etc) with parishes.

    The supposed witch hunts that are spoken of in modern parlance are in fact highly exaggerated to the point of pure fiction. One of the reasons we know this is because the Churches own documents–which we would logically think would record all witches and their executions…is suprisingly barren of the supposed millions of witches killed.

    And…if you dont buy that, historians have begun to uncover secular documents and mortality lists that prove that the names of the women supposedly burned as witches were in fact …ALREADY DEAD! …having died of all manner of causes…but not hangings or burnings.

    So in fact the Inquisistion is very…VERY misunderstood in large measure to latent protestant propoganda….just as overzealous catholics at the time depicted these protestatns as devil worshipers.

    Now as for the Crusades you speak of and their inherent barbarity….let me clear some of this up too.

    The first Crusade was called in 1099.

    It was largely in response to the Muslim occupation of Jerusalem which had occured in 637.

    Now you and I might say 450 years later is a long time to still be peeved about taking a city, but you have to remember the important of Jerusalem to both Jews and Christians. It was a sacrosant city, very special.

    The more recent rationale for the first crusade was a plea from the Orthodox Emperor (Eastern Europe) to help protect and defend against Muslim Seljuq dynasty into Anatolia.

    Again, this proves Islam was attempting to expand, violently, militantly well before the crusades were ever called!!!!!

    Attemtping to harness the energy of an outward expansion (climate change) of newly christianized normans, Pope Pious called the first Crusade.

    Now again I dont think anyone in this day or age would condone violence in the name of any religion, however you -must- understand the age. Europeans were still writhing from the capture of Jerusalem and muslim intervention into the HEART of Europe…Germany, Spain etc. They were still seeing violent incurrsions by the 11th century and frankly attempted to hault the expansion and retake lands that were originally Jewish and Christian.

    Now…were there astrocities committed in the name of Christ.

    YES. There were, sadly.

    But this does not mean the movement nor the many millions who went on crusade were evil or maligned. They may be misguided by our modern view, however one might very well argue that our own attack upon Afghanistan was very much a true crusade in the sense of attempting to hault the activities of a violent sect.

    Now I also believe there are millions of GOOD muslims in the world. Good apples and bad apples.

    But I will stick my ground in saying that I do not believe a religion born in violence can truly escape it. Christianity was born in peace…and even upon Christs supposed return to his disciples *(if you choose to believe it) he still maintained an essense of peace and love.

    I will also say point out that for every pedofile priest you hear about it is interesting to note that you did, in point of fact, hear about it. That is to say….in our judeo Christian system, the truth has a way of rising to the surface unlike many muslim societies in which a free press, or freedome to speak is considered ungodly.

    In fact, I very much believe Christian philosophy is very secular at his heart.

    It does not appear that Christ (per his own, actual words) wanted us to be devoid of logic..in fact he almost speaks of the virtue of logic over irrational religion (feeding the poor on the sabath which the pharisees had scolded him for as against “Gods law). At the appearence of a supposedly possessed man, Christ simply says ‘this man is not possessed, he is sick’.

    That is logic. That is a social philosophy that has, for better or for worse, endured over 2000 years and has continually renewed itself and most importantly….because Christianity it is not really a religion but a philosophy of living that believes God does not discourage technology or advancement, rather he seeks true humanity in any age…it will survive.

    Even sociolgists have proven that violent societies and systems (domestically speaking) tend not to survive very longer nor thrive.

    For anyone who touted the supposed contributions of Islam…I would merely point out that they were custodians of other cultures ideas, but did very little to advance those ideas and technology because the very concept of Islam (literally “to submit” and its various interpretations) fundamentally prohibits personal or technological advancement as being tantamount to challenging God…to supposedly put man before God.

    I have read articles explaining colonialism for such retarded social advancement–some have merit and some can explain the reawakening of Wahibism, the severe brand of Islam that Al Queda subsribes to. Yet it colonialism or material seeking cultures retard these Muslim societies….ask yourself the obvious question….why/how did those colonizing societies become so advanced as to be able to colonize??? Or, perhaps more succinctly, how is it that those Muslim societies that were colonized were not equipped to deal with colonists or material seekers.

    And while I dont advocate the enslavement or exploitation of any human on this earth (finding it abhorent) I do find those questions intriguing.

    If the Judeo-Christian west was so wrong, bad, malevolent…..how was it that it produced the very thinkers that this website exhaults….thinkers who, in their own right equally rejected religious prosecution….but never fully abandoned their judeo-christian tenets.

    I submit to you that Christianity has far more good to offer than ill.

    Comment by Common Sense — December 23, 2006 @ 11:24 pm
  107. Just wanted to point out that NO ONE is sworn in to congress with their hand on ANY book….not even the Bible; they are sworn in en masse simply raising their right hand.

    However, each congressman can (not must, but CAN), to commemorate the occasion, have a private ceremony and photo taken afterwards using the book of his/her choice, or none at all. This is where rep.-elect Ellison is going to put his hand on the Qur’an.

    Historically, our congressmen have not always used the Bible for these ceremonies, either. Over the years, these private swearing in and photo-ops have been done with NO book, the Torah, and the US Constitution, as well as the Bible. Sometimes even multiple books have been used. The point is, that this is a PRIVATE ceremony and photo-op, not the actual swearing in to office, which has already been completed.

    Next, just for the sake of argument, even if it WERE the actual swearing in, if you wanted someone to make an oath, using a book, wouldn’t you want that book to be one that the person MAKING the oath held in esteem? If the book was not her/his most valued book, the oath itself would not be of much significance, right?

    As an extreme example, if you had a Hindu taking office, would it have any significance whatsoever for him/her to put their hand on a Bible? That’s not the book that they hold in highest esteem, or as the ultimate truth. But if they were to swear in using the Bhagvad-Gita, that is a book they hold near and dear, then the promise would have meaning to THEM, and thus to those of us who expect them to perform their duties to the best of their abilities.

    Rep. Goode is creating a tempest in a teapot just to try to create an image that he thinks will positively impress of his constituents, many of whom are fundamentalist Christians, looking to establish their faith as the de facto “official” faith of the land.

    It seems to me that as a congressman, it’s time Rep. Goode took a remedial reading course, specializing in comprehension, with our own US Constitution as the textbook. If he were to do so, he might find that our founding fathers had some rather radical ideas, including one little gem about not including a religious test of any sort as a requirement for holding public office.

    Rant over, good day to all!

    -Nasim

    Comment by Nasim — December 24, 2006 @ 10:13 am
  108. Nasim

    You make good points. Well written.

    One quote caught my eye:

    >>>>”As an extreme example, if you had a Hindu taking office, would it have any significance whatsoever for him/her to put their hand on a Bible?”

    Comment by Common Sense — December 24, 2006 @ 1:14 pm
  109. (repost–the last one was cut-off)

    Nasim

    You make good points. Well written.

    One quote caught my eye:

    “As an extreme example, if you had a Hindu taking office, would it have any significance whatsoever for him/her to put their hand on a Bible?”

    I cannot and will not defend the congressman for any human based prejudices. If he is genuinely a bigot on a race-based issue than I think he is out of line, truly.

    Break down the word prejudice.

    It means pre-judging.

    Prejudice can sometimes be a survival tool.

    If we know large tigers have attacked humans before, we will natually be prejudiced against them.

    The same goes for any culture, race, or group.

    If we feel a certain group shows a tendency towards continual violent conflict (and frankly Islam has a constant history of it as well as constant infighting among nations and warring sects) and if we have been attacked here on our own soil….innocent people having been attacked.

    I do not blame anyone for feeling natural prejudice.

    This is to say, we natually pre judge a religion that has shown us in the west, that it cannot seem to pacify itself, nor do great numbers of its followers speak out against its violent members.

    ——
    I am white and native american.

    I could be angry at while people for having harmed my ancestors.

    I could be angry at natives for attacking otherwise innocent white settlers.

    Either one could be a justifyabe prejudice.

    And as a while male whos white ancestors enslaved and did great harm to the african american population I feel ashamed and saddened.

    On the other hand I did not enslave anyone and would have fought against it as an abolitionist.

    But that still does not remove my white racial association with white slave owners…nor my racial association with white bigots who lynched, raped and harassed blacks.

    Yet I did not do any of these things.

    But to the greater African american community, because I am effectively on the racial divide it would seem that I should have spoken out…or should speak out, against the injustices that have been done and continue to be done against the black community.

    By not speaking out…. I might as well be “going along with it” as the proverbial saying goes.

    That is what many non-Muslim americans are angry about.

    The fact that the Muslim- American community has been so damn quiet about the atrocities and seems almost apathetic strikes us as wrong; while making us wonder why?

    Why live here if ‘you’ (ie, Muslim americans) hate us so much?

    Why call American your home if you dont seem to speak out against terrorism.

    Why live here if you dont choose to at least partially integrate and adopt some of our customs.

    Sure you can make the argument that Islam is culturally much more different than western immigrants like the Irish, Italians, Scots, French, or even Hispanics….who all share common cultural traits.

    But to call a new land home, it would seem wise to reach out to those who lived here before you….and in not doing so, it causes us to be every more concerned….it only feeds a natural prejudice.

    While Hindus or Buddists are not innocent of violence in the world, we have yet to be attacked by either group in the same blood thirsty manner. Historically, I think the only similar asian group that comes close to the severe inhuman barbarity of fundamentalist Islam would be the Japanese military of World War II. Even the devilish nazis, who killed millions of jews, preferred to do so in a largely bloodless assembly line fasion.

    -No- approach or extermination of life is even remotely justified but the manner in which fundamentalist Muslims attack and kill (tearing people apart, sawing off peoples heads, burning them alive, and showing glee and happiness for the killing of innocents –is is what disturbs us in the west.

    By 2007 we would have hoped that type of thing would be long over. Yet such violence remains, and even warring sects continue to kill -each other- in such enormous blood baths the likes of which are staggering.

    At some point, a natural prejudice is natural.

    Comment by Common Sense — December 24, 2006 @ 1:15 pm
  110. [un]common sense – you are making the argument all racist bigots make; that prejudice is “justifyabe”(sic), or “natural.” Prejudice is neither. It is NEVER justifiable to judge an entire group based on the behavior of an individual or a few.

    Which happens to be the primary problem with this (original) article. The author attributes Goode’s religious bigotry to all “Republican[s].” That is, of course, nonsense and bigoted itself.

    Comment by Urabigottoo — December 27, 2006 @ 2:10 am
  111. [...] Nothing Republican Religious Bigotry Bookmark to: Posted By: Doug Mataconis @ 9:30 am || Permalink || || Categories: Individual Rights, Politics, Religious Liberty TrackBack URI:http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/01/02/virgil-goode-still-doesnt-get-it/trackback/ Read more posts from Doug Mataconis • • • [...]

    Pingback by The Liberty Papers»Blog Archive » Virgil Goode Still Doesn’t Get It — January 2, 2007 @ 9:30 am

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