RSS 2.0 FeedJoe Biden is Right, For Once….
by KevinSenator and presidential candidate Joe Biden was in South Carolina this Martin Luther King Jr. Day and he had some comments about the Confederate flag that flies at the state capital.
Sen. Joseph Biden, a Democratic presidential hopeful joining fellow Sen. Christopher Dodd at Martin Luther King Jr. holiday events, said Monday he thinks the Confederate flag should be kept off South Carolina’s Statehouse grounds.
“If I were a state legislator, I’d vote for it to move off the grounds – out of the state,” the Delaware senator said before the civil rights group held a march and rally at the Statehouse here to support its boycott of the state.
Joe Biden is absolutely right, the Confederate flag must go and in fact the monument on capital grounds that honors Confederate troops must go as well. The Confederacy existed for sole purpose of allowing the enslavement of other human beings. South Carolina’s Causes of Secession, adopted after the Ordinance of Secession itself in 1860 explains:
The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: “No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due.”
This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made. The greater number of the contracting parties held slaves, and they had previously evinced their estimate of the value of such a stipulation by making it a condition in the Ordinance for the government of the territory ceded by Virginia, which now composes the States north of the Ohio River.
The same article of the Constitution stipulates also for rendition by the several States of fugitives from justice from the other States.
The General Government, as the common agent, passed laws to carry into effect these stipulations of the States. For many years these laws were executed. But an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery, has led to a disregard of their obligations, and the laws of the General Government have ceased to effect the objects of the Constitution. The States of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, New York, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Wisconsin and Iowa, have enacted laws which either nullify the Acts of Congress or render useless any attempt to execute them. In many of these States the fugitive is discharged from service or labor claimed, and in none of them has the State Government complied with the stipulation made in the Constitution. The State of New Jersey, at an early day, passed a law in conformity with her constitutional obligation; but the current of anti-slavery feeling has led her more recently to enact laws which render inoperative the remedies provided by her own law and by the laws of Congress. In the State of New York even the right of transit for a slave has been denied by her tribunals; and the States of Ohio and Iowa have refused to surrender to justice fugitives charged with murder, and with inciting servile insurrection in the State of Virginia. Thus the constituted compact has been deliberately broken and disregarded by the non-slaveholding States, and the consequence follows that South Carolina is released from her obligation.
The ends for which the Constitution was framed are declared by itself to be “to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity.”
These ends it endeavored to accomplish by a Federal Government, in which each State was recognized as an equal, and had separate control over its own institutions. The right of property in slaves was recognized by giving to free persons distinct political rights, by giving them the right to represent, and burthening them with direct taxes for three-fifths of their slaves; by authorizing the importation of slaves for twenty years; and by stipulating for the rendition of fugitives from labor.
We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery; they have permitted open establishment among them of societies, whose avowed object is to disturb the peace and to eloign the property of the citizens of other States. They have encouraged and assisted thousands of our slaves to leave their homes; and those who remain, have been incited by emissaries, books and pictures to servile insurrection.
For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the *forms* [emphasis in the original] of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that “Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free,” and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.
This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.
On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.
South Carolina makes it very clear it is leaving the United States to preserve the right to enslave other human beings. This is akin to Nazi Germany’s rationale for existance to preserve and promote the Aryan race and its right to enslave and murder those it consider subhuman. Germany does not have monuments to the SS and symbols to Nazi Germany, Confederate soldiers and symbols do not deserve more honor than their evil cause deserves. The Confederacy needs to be repudiated and those who supported it scorned, not honored as some kind of mythical “lost cause”.
The flag and the monument aren’t there to honor the government policies of the former Confederacy. They’re their to honor the soldiers who answered the call to denfend their home. That’s their purpose today as well. I’m sure you don’t support all our govenment policies today, yet you can still honor our troops. I don’t support abortion either, but I don’t dishonor our troops today who are defending us just because they’re also defending the right of others to murder their unborn babies by defending our consitution. Again it’s about honoring those who answered to call not about honoring the long dead institution of slavery. It’s not honoring one groups heritage by denouncing and removing anothers.
Comment by Sam Boyd — January 15, 2007 @ 2:51 pmTypical anti-Southern Racist who hates every thing Southern. The Author of this Piece should move to the Islamic Republic of Iran with all the other racist Bigots so full of Hate.
Comment by Matthew Benjamin Abernathy I, Esq. — January 15, 2007 @ 4:18 pmEqually, it’s sad to see such passion wasted because the writer failed to research the subject, relying instead upon the agenda-driven misinformation of others.
All agree, blacks and whites alike. Slavery was the most despicable institution this country ever permitted. The Confederate flag doesn’t laud it, nor does it disparage it. It has nothing to do with it. Want proof? Read on. But don’t take my word for it. Study the history. Use some logic. Read the documents “” they’re easy to find.
In the decade preceding the Civil War, slaves were freed in unprecedented numbers. Scottish, Irish and German immigrants moving south, willing to work the plantations for pennies a week, rendered slaveholding impractical. By the time the North invaded, fewer than 25 percent of Southern farmers still owned slaves. The new Confederate Constitution actually outlawed the slave trade. Would this new nation go to war to protect the slave trade after prohibiting it?
The most glaring proof lies in the reaction to the Emancipation Proclamation, which was simply an ultimatum to the Confederacy. All states not in rebellion could keep their slaves, as could any state that ceased participation in the war within 100 days. Consider this. The South is fighting a bloody and costly war to preserve slavery. Suddenly President Lincoln publicly announces that the South may keep their slaves if they just stop fighting. What would the rebels do? They would shoulder their rifles, march home, keep their slaves and declare victory. Historically, The Emancipation Proclamation would be considered a declaration of surrender by the Union. So why didn’t the southerners stop the war and keep their slaves? Only one possible answer “” slavery wasn’t the issue.
What then is the true symbolism of this flag? It represents a still ongoing struggle by the states and the people against a federal government obsessed with increasing its own power, arrogantly ignoring the Constitution which specifically limits that power. The Confederates tried to stop it. They failed. They tried to leave it. They failed. The newly emboldened government thinks, “Who can stop us now? Who really cares about the Constitution anyway?” I’ll tell you. It’s the citizens who proudly fly the battle flag of the Confederate States of America.
Comment by Matthew Benjamin Abernathy I, Esq. — January 15, 2007 @ 4:23 pmWhile we’re at it, we should ask Democrat Al Gore to apologize for his father voting AGAINST the Civil Rights Act, & ask the “conscience of the Senate” Robert KKK Byrd to apologize EVERY Martin Luther King day for attempting to filibuster the Civil Rights Act.
Comment by Tim — January 15, 2007 @ 5:34 pmSadly, the honorable history of the Confederate battle flag is largely irrelevant.
The flag is a negative symbol in the South for two reasons: 1) it was coopted by the Klan and became a symbol of violence toward African Americans; and 2) it was adopted by the massive resistance that emerged during the post-Brown Civil Rights years in the South. The Rebel flags found their way onto Southern state flags as a symbol of modern defiance rather than an homage to the tradition of bravery among a mostly non-slaveholding force of fighting men during the Civil War.
Too bad–but that is the reality. There is a time-honored Christian principle of laying down non-essential symbols and practices that offend others.
Southern whites need to forego the flag as a measure of their desire to live in harmony with their neighbors.
Comment by A Waco Farmer — January 15, 2007 @ 6:09 pmMatthew,
It’s just merely the symbol of a nation that was founded to preserve slavery, as the document I link to above states.
No, but the Confederacy was going to fight to maintain the fact that those who currently slaves and their children would stay enslaved. The U.S. Congress already outlawed the slave trade by this time and slave ships were already being stopped by the British Royal Navy. How nice of the Confederacy to maintain status quo in this category.
The purpose of the Emancipation Proclamation was to cripple the South’s economy by giving slaves a reason to run away. It was a smart military and propaganda ploy by Lincoln. It set the stage for the freeing of the slaves by the 13th Amendment in the Union territories.
Comment by Kevin — January 15, 2007 @ 7:26 pmIt is sad to see such little understanding of liberty from a group with Liberty in its name. Your attack on the flag that fought for liberty against tyranny shows a lack of basic education and knowledge about our history. Please take time to read When in the Course of Human Events, or The South Was Right, or Why Not Freedom, or Reclaiming Liberty, or Uncivil War, or War For What. If not, you might as well be a spokesperson for the central government and its propaganda machine.
Comment by Brett — January 15, 2007 @ 10:17 pmBrett,
Ah yes, those slaveholders fighting for the right to own human beings as property fighting against those Yankee bastards who had the gall to believe that human beings were not property and instead had rights. Those tyrannical bastards.
Comment by Kevin — January 15, 2007 @ 10:30 pmKevin–You are a sick puppy young man. What hate you have!
Comment by Fred C Wilhite — January 15, 2007 @ 10:48 pmThanks Fred, I try.
Comment by Kevin — January 15, 2007 @ 10:52 pmKevin, My suggestion is to simply read the “Corwin Amendment” offered to the South to stay in the Union by Lincoln himself.
Comment by Charles Byrdf — January 16, 2007 @ 5:03 amIt would have let the South maintain slavery in any state that agreed to rejoin the Union-their collective answer was simply “NO!” Why? They were fighting for the same Liberty and Independence their ancestors were fighting for only 80 years before-PERIOD!!
Kevin, why are so many young people like yourself willing to grovel at the foot of the gods of Political Correctness hoping to be thrown a bone of approval and a pat on the head by such people as Joe Biden?
Granted, slavery was and IS morally wrong. What you don’t seem to grasp is that it was not a Southern, or even an American institution. It was a world wide institution. Have you ever heard of the Barbary Pirates? From before there was even a Jamestown, Virginia, coloney these Africans were capturing English and Irish residents and selling them in the Muslim slave markets. While 500,000 Africans were transported to American colonies and states from 1624 through 1818, more than 1,500 English and Irish were transported from the English Isles from 1600 through 1820s.
You demand The South give up its heritage by giving up its battle flag and dishonoring the 1 million men who fought defending their homes from an invading army. Where is your condemnation of the Yankee slave traders like John Brown, the founder of Brown University? Where is your demand that Brown University be torn down since the entire school is named after the worst/best slave trader in history? Where is your condemnation of the founders of Harvard and Yale Universities, all slave holders, and your demands that those schools be torn down in memory of the poor slaves who built those schools? Where is your demand for the destruction of all of the tall buildings in lower Manhattan built on the African Slave Burial Ground, where used-up, worn-out, burned-to-death slaves were tossed after they died old before they reached the age of 20?
No, Kevin, like so many willing to give in to PC, you take the easy route. You stammer out: “The Klan..The Klan….the Klan!” Have you ever seen the 1925 march down Pennsylvania Ave. in Washington, D.C.? You see thousands of U.S. flags, but not a single Confederate flag, but I don’t hear you condeming the U.S. flag. How many Klansmen are there in the nation today? A few hundred? How many murders have they committed? Any in the last 30 years? Is any one afraid of them? I can’t think of anyone I know who is. To cry “The Klan!” in connection with the Confederate battle flag is ludicrous (and not the rap singer so many of your fellow wannabe white kids listen to).
Kevin, you are being used and allowing yourself to be used. Try not to do that so much.
Comment by Clint Johnson — January 16, 2007 @ 5:18 amClint and Charles:
For the record, I brought up the Klan–not young Kevin.
I agree with much of what you say–although you must admit that slavery was at the crux of the Civil War.
No matter, you are right that honorable men peopled the Confederate army, and we should respect and value their loyalty for family and home. We ought not to judge that conflict by our present moral sensibilities.
However, the big problem for the flag comes in the twentieth century–not the nineteenth.
The Confederate flag became the symbol of “massive resistance” and isolated violence. The Confederate traditionalists understood this during the 1950s and 1960s when they tried so hard in vain to keep the symbol of the fighting men of the Confederacy out of the hands of the segregationists and, much worse, the rabid racists.
Unfortunately, they did not succeed.
Comment by A Waco Farmer — January 16, 2007 @ 5:59 amThe Liberty Papers-as long as you agree with their stand.
Comment by Charles Byrd — January 16, 2007 @ 6:22 amWant to pick a fight? Then take on the IRS!
If you have any character or backbone they will bring it out-if not you can have your family forward your mail to Ft. Leavenworth.
The Constitution is as dead as a doornail!!!!
No mention of the fact that slavery existed in the North until December 1865, eight months after Lee’s surrender, and the officialflag of the KKK is Old Glory dripping with blood from our Indians? You Gdyankees need to read the below.
http://wwwwakeupamericans-spree.blogspot.com/2007/01/war-of-northern-aggression.html
The War of Northern Aggression…?
Comment by Brock Townsend — January 16, 2007 @ 11:00 amDay by day, week by week, month by month, left wing leadership is taking more and more Southerners into the mindset of “we don’t need this bullshit.”
There is one thing I don’t understand and that is Why does Senator Joe Biden think he can come into our state of South Carolina and TELL us what we should do with OUR Confederate Battle Flag & OUR Confederate Monument????
Comment by Cecil — January 16, 2007 @ 1:40 pmI guess some people will do ANYTHING to get the NAACP votes!!
Cecil:
McCain, though I honor enormously for his POW time in Vietnam, is an admitted liar. Remember he backtracked on the Flag, and stated “my family fought on the wrong side.” If Paul can make a run for it, I am sure the Democrats will win. I’ve voted Republican so far, but shan’t anymore. The lesser of two evils is still evil, and it is possible a Paul run might bring in a huge amount of votes that could at least signal a beginning to bringing this country back to some semblance of normalcy. Everyone I talk to, black and white, are sick of the direction this country is heading. The main complaint is PC. I have a lot more in common with a black from the South than a white from the North.
Comment by Brock Townsend — January 16, 2007 @ 3:51 pmReferring to the post that started all of this, and none of the intervening remarks (though some seem to be worthy of further thought), I would ask that all read the matter posted by Kevin.
Comment by Cliff — January 17, 2007 @ 12:15 amIt would seem that his own posting admits the error. Slavery was the straw that broke the camel’s back. State’s rights were the issue. The states were fed up with being told what to do by the federal government. The fact that slavery is wrong did not enter into the discussion, because it was not a universally held belief of the time. The fact is, the confederates died to protect and promote their belief that the state government had an overriding authority above and beyond the federal government to dispense their own set of laws, in accordance with the Constitution that we all hold so dear.
They gave their lives to promote a government that was lost during that war. In a perfect world and in time, the south would have come to the inevitable conclusion that slavery, in and of itself, was wrong, and of need of abolishment. But, the federal government took away their right to do so. And, in the end, the fed changed the political landscape forevermore.
In any case, those involved in our civil war died for a cause in which they fervently believed, and that is to be respected and revered. The confederate battle flag is the symbol under which they gave their lives.
How many of those reading this post have ever had a cause for which they would give their life? Don’t answer this question with a post to the forum. The simple fact that you are alive, is testament to the fact that there is none.
I’m the mixed-race descendent of an American Indian Confederate veteran. Are ya’ll aware that the Cherokee, Creek, Seminole nations (just to name a few) supported the south? Stand Watie was the first Indian general in history. Thousands of Hispanics served from Texas, as well as Jews and yes, even blacks, such as Virginia cavalryman Dick Poplar.
The official flag of the KKK is the U.S. flag, not the Confederate battle flag. The Aryan Nation flies the Christian flag. Should we ban those flags too?
I protested against the KKK in June at Antietam and in September at Gettysburg with other Confederate reenactors. Hate groups do NOT represent Confederate heritage, southerners, or Americans.
Helaina Hinson
Comment by Helaina Hinson — January 17, 2007 @ 5:41 amJohnston Co, NC
First I must say that all this talk of the Klan is becoming like a broken record. the Klan has used several symbols for their hateful message. Your christian spirit of abandoning symbols is ridiculous . the christian churches main symbol is the cross, another of the klans more prominent symbols.My church has made no mention of ceasing the use of the cross as a symbol, has yours?
Comment by unreconstructed1 — January 17, 2007 @ 5:46 amSecondly, what right does a deleware senator have to come to South Carolina and make demands? This point is one example of the main cause for southern independence: states rights. No mention is made of the abomination tariffs(the trade tariff passed by congress that South Carolina seceded over) His shameful act is nothing more than a publicity stunt.
third, slavery. If indeed the war had been fought for slavery, why is it that when the emancipation proclamation was issued did we not stop fighting. For those of you that have no idea the emancipation proclamation was originally an effort by emperor lincoln to quiet the southern states. It did not free a single northern slave and would have not included any slaves in states that ceased hostilities. Likewise the ORIGINAL 13th ammendment was proposed as a way to entice the south to lay down arms. the article would have guaranteed the right of slave ownership indefinetely.
Much has been made of the union outlawing of the slave trade. No one has yet mentioned the similar steps taken by the confederacy. Article I section 7:1 states” The importation of African negroes from any foreign country other than the slave-holding States of the United States, is hereby forbidden; and Congress are required to pass such laws as shall effectually prevent the same”
The south was in the beginning of phasing out slavery already. Dio Vindici
As a mixblood KAW/Osage Americn Indian, whose ancestors fought for the Confederacy, I take great offense at all the anti South banner I have read of late. As I was born an raised in the land of stiken lincoln, I have probably a far better grasp on the war monger and how he was really regarded in the State of IL. IT is proven that he barely carried enough of the votes in this state, and that was not enough to keep a couple of counties from seceeding……Check out the Book Illinois Rebels…. also check out Congressional records during the Lincoln Administration…….you will find it quite enlightening his recorded comments in regards to the Negro (correct terminology of the period (no disrespect meant to the Blacks of today) also read his planned genocide of the American Indian. Make an effort to truly investigate the cause of the war 1861 -65 and possibly engage the brain before letting the clutch out on the mouth.
Comment by T Warren — January 17, 2007 @ 9:20 amTolerance is a two way road as so is expression of free speech. The South and her people would find it most refreshing to be treated as equals, it hasnt happened since Reconstruction.
T warren
If the Confederate flag is a battle flag why is the only one flown on the state capitals or part of the state flags. Why would a battle flag be one of the ones flown above a state capital, since it represented some battle and had nothing to with government.
I am from the south too, and most every body in the south claims to be part native American.
If slavery was going to be soon ended without the proclamation, all I would see that the Jim Crow laws would have been passed earlier. Freeing slaves would not have given them full citizenship. It may have been expedient on Lincoln’s part, but as a black person I could care less about his motives.
I think now, we will hear arguments how unfree blacks fought in the civil war and that its their flag too. The South lost the War. It has no place to put symbols of failure along with the governments. It it similar to flying the Swasticka with the flag of Germany. Hitler co-opted the symbol and gave it new meaning and most of the world associates that symbol with the Nazi’s.
It seems now that the revisionist think they have found a home with conservatives and libertarians, with their states rights issue. Since the South lost, what is the point; unless it is to prove that slavery wasn’t brutal and the Civil War was honorable. Most people who the flag offends don’t really care about how honorable the Civil War was, when there is no honor in enslaving people and actively denying them their citizenship.
On thing I could not understand, was the hate I saw in this woman’s eyes and the crap that spewed from her mouth when a black child was being escorted into school. To me, that is the old South’s dignity.
Comment by VRB — January 17, 2007 @ 10:02 amThose who attack the Confederate Flag and the Confederacy are showing their own ignorance and their own smal minded bigotry. The US flag endorsed slavery and every slave brought to these shores arived under the US flag.
Comment by Terry — January 17, 2007 @ 10:33 amThe Confederate soldier frought for Constitutional freedom, states rights and self determination. the north fought to enslave the entire South. The real evil here is Lincoln’s government – and the hateful bigots who defend it.
Terry, the South lost and for ever reason you think it rights were. I am a citizen of the US just like you are(I guess you are). Are you one of those people that would have had us go back to Africa? Having grown up in the South before 1964, I am accustomed to be called ignorant.
Comment by VRB — January 17, 2007 @ 11:37 amNo matter how many people may cherish the Confederate Flag; there as many or more that hate it. We are not dead yet. Maybe in another 40 years there will not be anyone around to dispute the impact, there may be a rehabilitation for what its represents. The hatred has nothing to do with the civil war, it has to do what every terrible thing that has done to black people, especially in the south. When lynchings were the entertainment of the masses and we stayed invisible as to not incur any wrath from the white folks. White folks could nice as anyone until you crossed their line of assertiveness. They accepted the banner of the Confederate flag as their call for “segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever.” If you doubt this take a look at film from the civil rights movement. There is even a highway sign that had the US and Confederate flag surrounded by the words States Rights, Racial Integrity, and Citizens Council. This was placed on the highway where the March to Montgomery traveled.
Comment by VRB — January 17, 2007 @ 12:06 pmhttp://www.crmvet.org/images/imgmont.htm
If you look at all the pictures, you will see what living the south meant to us.
Joe Biden will never be President !?!? c’mon … he’s a nobody from a trailer trash state.
This flag issue is irrelevant to the problems we face today. Shouldn’t we be focused on corporate welfare, maintaining Afganistan’s eastern border, educating our children, SUVs, plasma TVs and such ?
Being born in Carolina, raised in Delaware, U.S.Army tours in Colorado, New York, New Jersey and Panama and 27 years of living in Maryland I can tell you … rednecks who wrap themselves in the Stars and Bars to make a racial statement are everywhere … but nowhere. Only those of us raised by the children of Confederate soldiers and were told of the atrocities committed on the poor, black AND white, NON-slave holders in the “re-constructed” South would understand.
I never really considered the ramifications of the Stars and Bars because my childhood friends, both black and white, and I were the same in Carolina … poor share croppers. I never heard the word nigger until I moved from Carolina to Delaware. I never flew or displayed that flag out of apathy. But now, now that the consensus is that the flag is wrong, that it stands for evil, that, as an American, I may not be allowed to display it in the near future … well you can kiss my red, white and blue butt … I’m gettin’ one tomorrow.
Comment by JoWee — January 17, 2007 @ 3:40 pmVRB:
You evidently grew up in a different part of the South than I. I was born in Raleigh and grew up in “Mosby Country,” Northern Virginia. Yes, the races were segregated, but there was never any hate that I ever saw between the two. My best friend as a child, Johnny, was black. I used to play with him most every afternoon. My only bad recollection was when I came home from school one day in the third grade and asked my mother what a “nigger” was. What came afterwards wasn’t pleasant. Needless to say, I got an answer to my question in more than one way! My great Aunt Dixie had a Mammy (1863) and I have a picture of them in 1907 when Aunt Dixie was 43. They are hugging. My mother was wet nursed by Aunt Emily whose many pictures I have. I also have an Aunt Dixie, and a Cousin Dixie, both black. My fifth daughter, 10, is also name Dixie. I could go on and on. What I am trying to put forth is that all race relations in the South were not like yours. Many were most loving. Just because some people used the Battle Flag badly does not mean all do. I honor it proudly for my many ancestors who fought and died in the WBTS for the same principles than my g,g,g grandfather did as an Ensign at the battle of Brandywine in the Revolution War. Don’t forget we broke from England, but still kept slavery. The New England slave ship merchants weren’t about to go against it, that is not until it wasn’t profitable anymore……
Brock
Comment by Brock Townsend — January 17, 2007 @ 3:48 pmDear VRB, I went to the sight you suggested. I was not surprised by the number of U.S. flags in every other picture coupled with black folks marching for equal rights among whites. To me, it is more brain washing that black folks rally behind the same flag that made them slaves here in the first place. The same flag that gave us Jim Crow and all the dressings. This was the same U.S. government that created the black caucus, not to help blacks but to control the opinions of their leadership and further divide southerners black and white.
There were many proponents of separate societies amongst whites and blacks which included going back to Africa. Some include Abraham Lincoln, Malcolm X, and the original Black Panther Party. Booker T Washington suggested a separate economic system for blacks. Jim Crow was an example of two peoples living together separately to maintain the peace. Indian Reservations by today’s standard could be considered a racist arrangement. There was an attempt to create a separate reservation for freed slaves in the form of 40 acres and a mule. The 40 acres was not scattered about, but concentrated to the extreme south east where the rice plantation existed. I believe the Federal Government feared losing control of the black opinion if it had happened and even a possible South/black allegiance.
Comment by Mark Lamb — January 17, 2007 @ 3:59 pmMark, just which flag would you have us wrap ourselves in. Are you having seditious thoughts and have everybody fly the Confederate flag. You have missed the point!
Comment by VRB — January 17, 2007 @ 6:18 pmBrock, I did I grew up black. What happened to that mammy relationship when the child became an adult. Very few stood up for right. That must of been a strange relationship. The mammy being as much in the family as the family pet. What you all don’t get, is that how well one was treated didn’t change the fact the person is a slave or has been one. I don’t why you are on this site, where discussing liberty is paramount.
I don’t need a history lesson, maybe if the south had won there would have been a slave revolt and we would not be having this conversation and your ancestors would not have survived.
I hope my comments had some impact on those who understand. Nothing I could say to several of you would ever change your mind and you have practiced you arguments and I am sure this could go on forever. You can’t change my mind, you may be able to get other blacks to believe you, but its history now and they would not have any experience. Then we will have a new generation of happy darkies.
VRB:
“What happened to that mammy relationship when the child became an adult.”
You need to read my post again to answer that question.
“The mammy being as much in the family as the family pet”
A childish analogy.
“What you all don’t get, is that how well one was treated didn’t change the fact the person is a slave or has been one.”
Really! Then why do I have a picture of five generations born and bred at Mosby Hall of which the originator was born a slave and the rest stayed with him? 1907……The same year as another picture I mentioned, if you bothered to digest it.
“I don’t why you are on this site, where discussing liberty is paramount.
An asinine question, since I am obviously defending my ancestors who have been here since 1709 and have fought in every war. By the way, I am a 100% service related disabled Vietnam veteran with eight years in-country. What have you done for this nation besides complaining?
“maybe if the South had won there would have been a slave revolt and we would not be having this conversation and your ancestors would not have survived.”
Slave revolt where? In the North where slavery was still legal until eight months after Lee’s surrender? It never happened in the South, though the EP was supposed to have prompted it.
I was hoping to reach a common ground debating you, but see that will not be the case. Ignorance is bliss.
Comment by Brock Townsend — January 17, 2007 @ 7:03 pmVRB
first off, there is no way that you can possibly act like you know what would have happened if the south had won. secondly the major proponent at the time of the war for southern independence of sending africans back to Africa was lincoln himself “Send them to Liberia, to their own native land. But free them and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit this.” – Abraham Lincoln, as cited in “The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln,” Roy Basler, ed. 1953 New Brunswick, N.J.,: Rutgers University Press. Lincolns so-called drive for emancipation was based on his own racist views. If he had not been executed by boothe, most africans would probably not be here today.
jowee
the stars and bars is not in question here the stars and bars refers to the first national confederate flag, which looked similar to the american flag. how can you even logically discuss something that you know nothing about, save for what you have heard second hand by other self confessed “experts”
everyone
Comment by unreconstructed1 — January 18, 2007 @ 5:12 amLet this be known. I am a confederate southern nationalist. My country is the confederate states of America. I come from the state of georgia, which at the time of the peace treaty ending the american revolution was a recognized country preceding the U.S.A (as were ALL original thirteen colonies; the british crown signed the treaty to each state respectively as opposed to signing to one “united” country.) the south has , as early as the time of Washington, had differences with the north. your four years speech is irrelevant. North and south are two completely different cultures. the others and myself have tried top reason with ya’ll but unfortunately you are too federally brainwashed to want to learn any historical truth.
Dear VRB, Why is a little perspective other than you own subversive? Why are you being so standoffish? And your someone that likes to make presumptions. I mistook you for someone that wished to dialoged. I have so much to share. I Look forward to your perspedtive Too.
You may not believe me here but I understand your remarks. There’s so much hate out there. Don’t be a hater.
Comment by Mark Lamb — January 18, 2007 @ 5:15 pmWhat strikes me as especially odd is the fact that your blog states that you are defending Life Liberty Property and Individual Freedom. Your blog post stating that Joe Biden is right is particularly interesting. Are you refering to the first time Joe Biden went to South Carolina (last month) and proudly proclaimed to the Rotary Club that he was from a slave state also, or the second time when he addressed the Martin Luther King celebration crowd and decided that the Confederate flag must go?
I think we can assume that you agree with the second proclamation, which exposes you for the complete farce that you really are.
But as William Scott stated in his review of the Frank Conner book “The South Under Siege” , The New England Puritan was violent and of the mindset that: “We believe in the Universal brotherhood of mankind, and if you don’t agree we will kill you”.
Obviously it is not the mindset of the modern day Puritan Yankee to kill those who disagree with them. However; it is evident that the Purian Yankee still thinks that we are all one, and should think like him.
Comment by MoBushwhacker — January 18, 2007 @ 6:01 pm“I was not surprised by the number of U.S. flags in every other picture coupled with black folks marching for equal rights among whites. To me, it is more brain washing that black folks rally behind the same flag that made them slaves here in the first place. The same flag that gave us Jim Crow and all the dressings.”
The US flag represented the words, The Declaration of Independence. If you read some of Dr. Kings fwritings you would know.
It seemed like it was a subversive thing to say about black people. I don’t hate, but get angry of
those trying to rehabilitate the South as a beacon of democracy and liberty.
Black people always had a white mask, so it would not be possible to know what one was feeling. Of course none has to believe me and your white version of history has to be right. So what dialog? I don’t argue, because it is useless. It is like trying to argue with a Christian that believes the world was made in six days, that evolution is a fact. I can only speak of my experience and since it doesn’t jive with some else’s perception, then my experience is not valid. I alway get a history lesson, too. I have heard this all before.
Comment by VRB — January 18, 2007 @ 6:13 pmAlso, when I make comments I don’t necessarily want to make an argument. I know this is mostly the nature of this blog.
Agreeing that a symbol of oppression and racism should be removed makes us a farce? Wow, glad to know that.
Comment by Adam Selene — January 18, 2007 @ 6:46 pmOK VRB, Let us shake hands. I understand. If you ever see me in my truck with a Confederate flag sticker, just know please that its not about black folks to me or against you. I consider you friend and fellow countryman even though you may disagree.
If the Confederate flag disappeared tomorrow nothing would change. God bless you friend.
Comment by Mark Lamb — January 18, 2007 @ 7:13 pm