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	<title>Comments on: How To Not Explain Things To Libertarians</title>
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	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: VRB</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13729</link>
		<dc:creator>VRB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13729</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Interesting, I have seen someone classify them self as an Objectivist libertarian. I think we need to go back to Tom Blanton on that. I have been at several sites that also have a mix, but the differences do not stand out.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting, I have seen someone classify them self as an Objectivist libertarian. I think we need to go back to Tom Blanton on that. I have been at several sites that also have a mix, but the differences do not stand out.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Selene</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13706</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Selene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 19:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13706</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Please note the direction. Most people I know who are &quot;small l&quot; libertarians think that Ayn Rand did some good thinking, that Objectivism is good (as far as it goes) and rather like her books. &quot;Capital O&quot; Objectivists (for lack of a better term) do not like Libertarians or libertarians. Libertarian philosophy doesn&#039;t derive in any great part from Rand or Heinlein, although Heinlein certainly popularized some aspects of libertarian thought (TANSTAAFL, for example). The modern fathers of libertarianism would be Mises, Friedman and Rothbard, with Hayek and Rockwell thrown in for good measure. 

The fact is, Clarke doesn&#039;t even grasp this and is clearly misconstruing Objectivism and Libertarianism.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please note the direction. Most people I know who are &#8220;small l&#8221; libertarians think that Ayn Rand did some good thinking, that Objectivism is good (as far as it goes) and rather like her books. &#8220;Capital O&#8221; Objectivists (for lack of a better term) do not like Libertarians or libertarians. Libertarian philosophy doesn&#8217;t derive in any great part from Rand or Heinlein, although Heinlein certainly popularized some aspects of libertarian thought (TANSTAAFL, for example). The modern fathers of libertarianism would be Mises, Friedman and Rothbard, with Hayek and Rockwell thrown in for good measure. </p>
<p>The fact is, Clarke doesn&#8217;t even grasp this and is clearly misconstruing Objectivism and Libertarianism.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13404</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Feb 2007 07:34:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13404</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;It should be noted that Clarke claims that Libertarians derive their philosophy from Ayn Rand and Heinlein. This is just silly. Clearly he is talking to some stereotypes. Objectivists (followers of Ayn Rand) canâ€™t stand Libertarians.&quot; 

I am not quite sure I agree with this. I consider myself a libertarain but I have a great deal of admiration for Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism. I have to say that I agree with Objectivism for the most part but I&#039;m not sure I would call myself an &#039;Objectivist&#039; at this point because I don&#039;t think I have taken enough time to study it.   

Perhaps you are right that hard core Objectivists don&#039;t like libertarians but I think that the two philosophies are more alike than they are different (at least my understanding of the two).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It should be noted that Clarke claims that Libertarians derive their philosophy from Ayn Rand and Heinlein. This is just silly. Clearly he is talking to some stereotypes. Objectivists (followers of Ayn Rand) canâ€™t stand Libertarians.&#8221; </p>
<p>I am not quite sure I agree with this. I consider myself a libertarain but I have a great deal of admiration for Ayn Rand and her philosophy of Objectivism. I have to say that I agree with Objectivism for the most part but I&#8217;m not sure I would call myself an &#8216;Objectivist&#8217; at this point because I don&#8217;t think I have taken enough time to study it.   </p>
<p>Perhaps you are right that hard core Objectivists don&#8217;t like libertarians but I think that the two philosophies are more alike than they are different (at least my understanding of the two).</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Selene</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13001</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Selene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:02:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-13001</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Patrick, I think that there is a position among many libertarians that things like NAFTA and CAFTA are pro free trade and that immigration should not, generally, be restricted. Given that perspective, Paul&#039;s votes against CAFTA and desire for restricted immigration looks un-libertarian, don&#039;t you think? Now, we might disagree about CAFTA, but that is the basis of the argument.

This site is not a collective, each contributor is asked to write based on their own beliefs and opinions. I&#039;d suggest pointing at a specific contributor, rather than the collective whole. Please don&#039;t keep silent, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick, I think that there is a position among many libertarians that things like NAFTA and CAFTA are pro free trade and that immigration should not, generally, be restricted. Given that perspective, Paul&#8217;s votes against CAFTA and desire for restricted immigration looks un-libertarian, don&#8217;t you think? Now, we might disagree about CAFTA, but that is the basis of the argument.</p>
<p>This site is not a collective, each contributor is asked to write based on their own beliefs and opinions. I&#8217;d suggest pointing at a specific contributor, rather than the collective whole. Please don&#8217;t keep silent, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12995</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 20:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12995</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to clarify none of my message was directed at you, and my use of the term &#039;distortion&#039; was indeed directed at the author of that &#039;price fixing&#039; article.

I was &quot;collectively&quot; however questioning the number of people on this site and elsewhere on the internet who seem to have reached a consensus that Ron Paul is a protectionist.  It seems entirely unfounded given the staunch advocacy of free trade in one of his books, many of his articles, and as far as I have seen in his record in congress as well.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify none of my message was directed at you, and my use of the term &#8216;distortion&#8217; was indeed directed at the author of that &#8216;price fixing&#8217; article.</p>
<p>I was &#8220;collectively&#8221; however questioning the number of people on this site and elsewhere on the internet who seem to have reached a consensus that Ron Paul is a protectionist.  It seems entirely unfounded given the staunch advocacy of free trade in one of his books, many of his articles, and as far as I have seen in his record in congress as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12994</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 19:33:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12994</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m entirely aware that this is a site with many contributors, and I did not collectively assign blame.

I remain however entirely baffled by some of the things mentioned on the site regarding the man.

In the future, I&#039;ll be sure to be miffed silently.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m entirely aware that this is a site with many contributors, and I did not collectively assign blame.</p>
<p>I remain however entirely baffled by some of the things mentioned on the site regarding the man.</p>
<p>In the future, I&#8217;ll be sure to be miffed silently.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Selene</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12979</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Selene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 15:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chuckles, nice point Tom. I think that I would rather classify people like Heinlein did.

Patrick, this site has 12 contributors, some of whom have not written a single word about Ron Paul. We don&#039;t have a policy concerning Ron Paul. We don&#039;t require that all contributors hold precisely the same views. In fact, the range is from Anarcho-Capitalist to libertarian Republican. Maybe you should be miffed at the people that you disagree with, not &lt;i&gt;collectively&lt;/i&gt; assign blame.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chuckles, nice point Tom. I think that I would rather classify people like Heinlein did.</p>
<p>Patrick, this site has 12 contributors, some of whom have not written a single word about Ron Paul. We don&#8217;t have a policy concerning Ron Paul. We don&#8217;t require that all contributors hold precisely the same views. In fact, the range is from Anarcho-Capitalist to libertarian Republican. Maybe you should be miffed at the people that you disagree with, not <i>collectively</i> assign blame.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Blanton</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12977</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Blanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12977</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As I gaze into my naval, I wonder what the outcome would be after all of us has been classified, sub-catagorized and labeled. Then what?

Q - How many libertarians does it take to change a lightbulb?

A - One, to change the bulb, and an infinite number to classify this one individual and label him or her, after debating the nature of the lightbulb and inventing several thousand &quot;original&quot; ideas about the lightbulb]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I gaze into my naval, I wonder what the outcome would be after all of us has been classified, sub-catagorized and labeled. Then what?</p>
<p>Q &#8211; How many libertarians does it take to change a lightbulb?</p>
<p>A &#8211; One, to change the bulb, and an infinite number to classify this one individual and label him or her, after debating the nature of the lightbulb and inventing several thousand &#8220;original&#8221; ideas about the lightbulb</p>
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		<title>By: Chapomatic &#187;</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12971</link>
		<dc:creator>Chapomatic &#187;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 07:19:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12971</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Liberty Papers talks classical liberal and libertarian thinking. A very polite smackdown is involved and the comment [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Liberty Papers talks classical liberal and libertarian thinking. A very polite smackdown is involved and the comment [...]</p>
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		<title>By: LoganFerree</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12966</link>
		<dc:creator>LoganFerree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Kevin,

Point well taken.  Although, except for the issue of trade, wouldn&#039;t his conservative stances on immigration, culture (like abortion), and states&#039; rights still put him within the range of classical liberals?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>Point well taken.  Although, except for the issue of trade, wouldn&#8217;t his conservative stances on immigration, culture (like abortion), and states&#8217; rights still put him within the range of classical liberals?</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12965</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 05:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12965</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sometimes I&#039;m completely miffed by the distortion on this site regarding Ron Paul.  First a vote regarding the implementation details of an already socialized health care system is intentionally distorted and it&#039;s claimed that he is supporting price controls.  Clearly he wouldn&#039;t knowingly do such a thing, but it was stated as such regardless.

Now he deviates from libertarian and classical liberal ideology on trade!?  What is this nonsense?  Are you claiming that Ron Paul is not for free trade or are you claiming that libertarians and classical liberals are protectionists.  Both are equally absurd.

I&#039;m not sure how he deviates from libertarian ideology on state&#039;s rights either.

Kevin, are you of the opinion that the appropriate libertarian position is one which cedes more power to national and supranational organizations than to local governments?  That seems to be your position given your seeming criticism of Paul&#039;s opinions on state&#039;s rights and his stance on free trade (I&#039;m assuming you dislike his favoring of unilateral free trade instead of ceding national sovereignty to international &quot;free trade&quot; organizations).

Of course on those other two issues there is certainly debate as to what is the true libertarian position, but I agree he does diverge from libertarian on those issues to some extent.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sometimes I&#8217;m completely miffed by the distortion on this site regarding Ron Paul.  First a vote regarding the implementation details of an already socialized health care system is intentionally distorted and it&#8217;s claimed that he is supporting price controls.  Clearly he wouldn&#8217;t knowingly do such a thing, but it was stated as such regardless.</p>
<p>Now he deviates from libertarian and classical liberal ideology on trade!?  What is this nonsense?  Are you claiming that Ron Paul is not for free trade or are you claiming that libertarians and classical liberals are protectionists.  Both are equally absurd.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure how he deviates from libertarian ideology on state&#8217;s rights either.</p>
<p>Kevin, are you of the opinion that the appropriate libertarian position is one which cedes more power to national and supranational organizations than to local governments?  That seems to be your position given your seeming criticism of Paul&#8217;s opinions on state&#8217;s rights and his stance on free trade (I&#8217;m assuming you dislike his favoring of unilateral free trade instead of ceding national sovereignty to international &#8220;free trade&#8221; organizations).</p>
<p>Of course on those other two issues there is certainly debate as to what is the true libertarian position, but I agree he does diverge from libertarian on those issues to some extent.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12963</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 04:21:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12963</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;His own deviation from what would be called the Libertarian standard seems to classify him more as a Classical Liberal.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Paul&#039;s deviations from the libertarian ideology (trade, immigration, cultural issues, state&#039;s rights) would make him more of a paleo-conservative than a classical liberal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>His own deviation from what would be called the Libertarian standard seems to classify him more as a Classical Liberal.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Paul&#8217;s deviations from the libertarian ideology (trade, immigration, cultural issues, state&#8217;s rights) would make him more of a paleo-conservative than a classical liberal.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Pye</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12955</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Pye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Feb 2007 00:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12955</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great post, Adam.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Adam.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Selene</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12946</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Selene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12946</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A lot of folks that are liberals in the classic (i.e. Scottish Enlightenment and Victorian England) sense of the word call themselves small l libertarians. I agree that it is difficult to use the term Classical Liberalism because of the association of the word liberal with progressive and socialist ideas.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A lot of folks that are liberals in the classic (i.e. Scottish Enlightenment and Victorian England) sense of the word call themselves small l libertarians. I agree that it is difficult to use the term Classical Liberalism because of the association of the word liberal with progressive and socialist ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: LoganFerree</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12945</link>
		<dc:creator>LoganFerree</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/02/24/how-to-not-explain-things-to-libertarians/#comment-12945</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re making a lot of sense Adam.  I would note, however, that because of the meaning that Liberalism now contains within the American public, few people refer to themselves as Classical Liberals and I&#039;m sure that a number of people who self-identify as Libertarian are more likely Classical Liberals.  

Ron Paul, for instance, may certainly self identify as Libertarian, but he&#039;s not nearly as doctrinaire as other Libertarians.  His own deviation from what would be called the Libertarian standard seems to classify him more as a Classical Liberal.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re making a lot of sense Adam.  I would note, however, that because of the meaning that Liberalism now contains within the American public, few people refer to themselves as Classical Liberals and I&#8217;m sure that a number of people who self-identify as Libertarian are more likely Classical Liberals.  </p>
<p>Ron Paul, for instance, may certainly self identify as Libertarian, but he&#8217;s not nearly as doctrinaire as other Libertarians.  His own deviation from what would be called the Libertarian standard seems to classify him more as a Classical Liberal.</p>
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