John Murtha Calls For A Draft

Not this shit again. Another liberal Democrat calls for slavery.

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  • uhm

    I really hate socialist. They always try to sneak in the state wherever they can.

  • VRB

    Slavery, socialist, what other extreme words are you all going to use to make your point. What this does is to trivialize those things by changing the language. I am sure even a slave in this modern day would not think their plight the same as being drafted in the military.
    Buzz words are dangerous in the long run.

  • Stephen Littau

    VRB, if forcing young men and women to risk thier lives with military service is not slavery, I don’t know what is. Who owns you VRB, you or the government? If you own yourself, then the government cannot force you into service. If you do not own yourself, the government can do whatever it wishes with you and your life.

    This whole thing is nothing but a stunt on the Left’s part. They don’t have the balls to do what they want to do (which is defund the war). They hide behind these tactics to make the war even more unpopular. I would have a hell of a lot more respect for them if they were honest and took a principled stand without excuses. Let them stand up and be counted as against the war and let the chips fall where they may. These politicians are nothing but cowards.

  • Brad Warbiany


    What would you call it when someone is taken away from their chosen life against their will, and forced to serve the government’s purposes for two years of their life?

    I might accept the term “indentured servitude”, but usually at least those who were contracted for years in order to gain passage to the US did so by choice. Murtha isn’t exactly offering us a choice.

  • Kevin

    Murtha isn’t exactly offering us a choice.

    Actually he is, join his army or be imprisoned or killed.

  • VRB

    One would have a choice, serve, volunteer or go to jail; but passive resistance doesn’t seem to be the libertarian way. You wont volunteer, you don’t think anything should be asked of you, but somehow you want all the benefits of freedom without lifting a finger. You would protect your property, but don’t consider that you live in a society and can’t stand alone if the rest is devastated. I do realize that some of you on this platform have been in the military, but it is not the norm. If I have got this wrong, then you should think about how you describe yourselves.

  • Brad Warbiany


    What are you trying to say? Because I haven’t been in the military, and refuse to be forced into military service, I’m a coward and won’t fight for my freedom?

  • Kevin


    Where has passive resistance accomplished anything?

  • trumpetbob15

    VRB wrote,
    “You wont volunteer, you don’t think anything should be asked of you, but somehow you want all the benefits of freedom without lifting a finger.”

    Now, I may not have joined the military, but I also never owned a garden or butchered a cow. Does that mean I am unfit to make dinner? Am I living off the back of someone else, eating “without lifting a finger,” as you say?

  • tarran

    The U.S. military does not defend my freedom. In fact, looking through the long list of wars, you have to go back to the War of 1812 to find one where the U.S. Army was defending the United States.

    I am quite happy to pay for my own security. I would not hire the United States government to provide such security since it is an incompetent organization that provides poor customer service and charges high prices.

    One can decline to purchase a car made by Ford without being opposed to automobile usage.

  • mike

    VRB, as someone who is planning on making a career out of voluntarily serving our country, the call for a draft is a slap in my face.

    I can’t remember the exact quote, but Heinlein said something to the effect of a society that does not have volunteers to defend it is not worth defending.

  • Eric Dondero

    The greatest argument against the Draft is that we Military guys (and Vets) do not want some weenie geek in the proverbial foxhold with us, who doesn’t want to be there. Draftees, in most cases, make poor soldiers and sailors.

    I’m ex-Military. And I don’t think some guy who doesn’t want to be drafted is a coward. Hell, you’re actually doing me and other Military guys a favor by not being drafted. We don’t want you there by our side.

    Plus, the more glory (and chics) for us, when we come home as Victors.

    After all, girls really do love a man in a uniform.

    Eric Dondero, Federal Appointee
    Selective Service Board
    20-year Appointment

  • Eric Dondero

    And let’s not forget who gave us a Return to Selective Service.

    None other than President James Earl Carter.

    And guess what political affiliation “Jimmy” has?

    Right-o. You guessed it. DEMOCRAT.

    And what’s the affiliation for the 20 or so Congressmen who regularly sign on to Cong. Ron Paul’s yearly bill to abolish Selective Service?

    Take a wild guess…



    So, what was that again, that silly idea that some Libertarians were pushing last year, how we Libertarians ought to “ally” ourselves with Liberals and Democrats?

    Run that one by me again.

  • VRB
  • VRB

    Where would you fight for it?

  • VRB

    Are you calling many of the Viet Nam vets a bunch of slackers?

  • Brad Warbiany


    If I thought a foreign power honestly was a threat to my freedom, and thought that my use of arms would assist to defeat that threat, I would fight for it.

    Would I have gone to Vietnam, if I had been alive? Probably not, if I could have avoided it. Looking back on history, I don’t think that was a war that had any implications for the freedom of Americans here at home.

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  • Kevin


    The reason why blacks won their freedom is because there would have been and there was violence if Jim Crow was maintained.

  • VRB

    I don’t why you think that, there is noting in history that would indicate that. Is that you view because it supports your ideas. Blacks always got the short end of the stick, when it came to violence. The Panthers were murdered
    while they slept, students were shot, just protesting. I am not talking about Kent State, but Jackson State. None of this inspired blacks to take to the streets and kill every white person in sight. King’s death caused riots in the black neighborhoods not the white’s. Even Malcolm X only spoke of violence as a means of self defense. There was a lot rhetoric at that time, but we knew that it would have been impossible for an armed revolt. Guns would not have been our solution because we would have been wiped out. Genocide would not be a solution to civil rights. And if you don’t think J. Edgar Hoover’s FBI didn’t know our week points, think again. Almost all Black organizations, including churches, and its members were under surveillance. Many were listed with House of Un-American Activities Committee. Civil rights activities were synonymous with Communist activities. (this is partly why I made the first comment)Under that umbrella, any crackdown on us would have been supported. One thing slavery had taught us, was how to survive. It was not white people’s fear that won part of the Civil Right battle; to some, they were moved to feel it was the right thing to do to, to others it was a matter upon how they were viewed by the world and others it was a matter of government coercion.

    The point about passive resistance is that it is a moral stand that one takes, when you break a law that is unjust, you are willing to suffer the consequences. There were some that didn’t flee to Canada when they got drafted, they went to jail. They saw this as a choice. I thought that this is what you would have gotten from reading that letter.