In my small town (in Canada) there were four bars 5 years ago. Now there’s only a stripper bar. I won’t get all dressed up to stand out in the cold (with no roof, or any type of shelter allowed). Look at the outfits on people, and tell me they (drinker and friends) want to leave their drinks or try to keep someone at the table for every smoke(takes about 25 minutes, if your allowed back in).

Restaurants, all have takeout menu available now. Yet there’s only supposedly 30% smoking rate in the area.
PS I also have people over to my house and we do buffet, and smoke and drink to our hearts content. No worrying about the fights, from having no bouncers on the street (smoking area).

Enjoy your bars while you got them! Soon there won’t be much choice, if any. How long can you consistently live on 30% less? Yet we hear, there’s no damage to the economy.

Thanks for showing the wiki link. I did the same for my town. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn%2C_IN

I spent 18+ years there. Graduating class of 61 kids. I worked on farms baling hay/straw and picking up rocks. I also mowed lawns and worked for my dad doing industrial maintenance (nights/weekends/summer shutdowns until I was 18) After high school, I went to college. I paid for it. I worked 40 hrs a week at a country club as a server/bartender/bus boy/snack bar manager. (Ask my roommate Brad Warbiany)I didn’t get my first car until the summer after my sophomore year in college. I road a bicycle to work until then.

So Steerpike, I am not sitting in an Ivory Tower making decisions based on ideology. I am making decisions based on ideology and my life experiences from my 1.5 bed apartment in a city I just moved to, where I know no one, so I could advance faster in my career.

Ted pretty well covered your example of lessor/lessee contracts.

Nick

P.S. Check out my hometown’s most famous resident.

P.P.S. I swear the population in 2000 is the exact same as it was when the town was founded in the 1800′s.

Hospitality is the demesne of the young and inexperienced. Try living in a small town, with no access to a car and looking for your first job – reality for thousands of young people and students – the opportunities just arrive in waves don’t they! So many choices!

My first job was in this town. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie,_Oklahoma
Take a look at the population. I went to Junior High there… Played football.
I was offered a job waiting tables. I declined. I took a job working the fields for some farmers. As you can see, I had more than one opportunity, because I looked for them or made them, in a very small town.

My second job was working for Wal-Mart in Paris Texas. Bigger town.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Texas

These days I work for a global consulting company in the tech support field. I do not have a college degree, though I have some college under my belt. In time, I do plan to complete my degree.

Opportunities arrive with slow frequency… That is why others must be made. I’ve had my ups, and my downs. Right now, I am on an up.

You guys are all simply sitting in positions where is barely affects you in any way aside from some supposed ‘ideal’ about rights and I’m telling you that for everyone who works in this industry these laws can’t come fast enough.

Ever been homeless, living on the street? I have. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone, and if you have as well, then you should know that I’ve been sitting in positions where everything affected me.

It did not last long, because I refused to let it. Just a few weeks of living on the street. I got a day laborer job. I scrimped and saved. My ideals are still with me, and I’ve been in positions that few would call lofty. I still believe in the individual above the majority. Always have. Always will.

The majority has no right to say “You sir, you cannot do this with your land.” The individual has a right to say “While you do this, sir, I will not give you my money, or solicit your services.”

By the way, you’re also pretty much all assuming that the owner of the restaurant has some kind of rights as to what goes on in their building. If you really believed the stuff you were saying you’d be fighting for the rights of the owner of the building that the restaurant owner generally rents from. Very rarely are these the same person. So which one of them gets to dictate the smoking rules?

Knowing that he is leasing to someone who is opening a place in the food industry, the owner has the right to decide… On the lease. Just like he can specify what can and cannot be changed with his property.

And if he says that the building cannot be used as a smoking establishment, the person who wants to open the place has a decision to make. He can always look for another location.

Hospitality is the demesne of the young and inexperienced. Try living in a small town, with no access to a car and looking for your first job – reality for thousands of young people and students – the opportunities just arrive in waves don’t they! So many choices!

You guys are all simply sitting in positions where is barely affects you in any way aside from some supposed ‘ideal’ about rights and I’m telling you that for everyone who works in this industry these laws can’t come fast enough.

By the way, you’re also pretty much all assuming that the owner of the restaurant has some kind of rights as to what goes on in their building. If you really believed the stuff you were saying you’d be fighting for the rights of the owner of the building that the restaurant owner generally rents from. Very rarely are these the same person. So which one of them gets to dictate the smoking rules?

1) I am a former smoker, who worked in bars and restaurants in college.

2) The effects of second hand smoke are over rated.

I think Ted covered cars pretty well. My truck exhaust is much worse for you than second hand cigrarett smoke.

Even the most hardcore smoker hates the smell of their hair and clothing and the rawness in their throat after a night out at a smokey pub: try having that every single day.

You suggest I can choose not to work in places that allow smoking, but sometimes you don’t have the luxury of being so picky about your job and you are forcing every worker in that place to suffer through 10+ hour shifts in a poisonous environment.

These two statements give away your true colors. You are a victim. You won’t try to change your life, so you want someone else to do it for you.

Man, that’s apoint most people miss, especially when it comes to bars/restaurants, the majority of the workers smoke. Go to any restaurant after hours, and you will find employees sitting at the bar smoking.

Nick

I want to designate a non-smoking section out on the patio.

Do any anti smoking people have a problem with that?

You call my arguments silly, but obviously you failed to read them and responded with a section of comments that I fail to see as accurate.

1. You state that “everyone in a car on the highway has made that choice”.

But what about the people living nearby? What about people who bike? People who walk on the sidewalk?

It is the exact same situation as with cigarettes, save the highways are TRUE public property, versus restraunts, which are open to the public, but are privately owned on private land.

2. You state “Not the same situation as sitting at an outside table and having four people at the next table light up.”

Actually, it’s worse. The toxins in automotive fuel are worse than cigarettes, more prevelant, and tend to be easier to smell at an outdoor cafe by the road than cigarette smoke.

3. You state “Your WiFi argument fails at an even greater level if you think that (if wifi really *does* cause health problems) that a sign at the door would prevent those health problems from extending beyond that border.”

Did you fail to read about the wi-fi inhibiting paint? This means that the signal cannot go past it. There are other materials for doors and windows, which have similar properties.

No, this is not exactly like cigarette smoke, but it is similar.

4. You state “You suggest I can choose not to work in places that allow smoking, but sometimes you don’t have the luxury of being so picky about your job and you are forcing every worker in that place to suffer through 10+ hour shifts in a poisonous environment.”

Sure as hell you do have that luxury. I’ve done my share of ditch digging. If I did not like the place, I can go somewhere else to dig a ditch. Eventually, I’ll find an employer who does it in a way I can find acceptable.

These days, I work in an office. See that. I chose a different form of employment. And I can go somewhere else if this place is bad.

People who say they do not have a choice are just fooling themselves. You ALWAYS have a choice. Most people are just too afraid to make the hard ones.

Even the most hardcore smoker hates the smell of their hair and clothing and the rawness in their throat after a night out at a smokey pub: try having that every single day.

Ted:
Those are very silly arguments, everyone in a car on the highway has made that choice. There are also steps you can take in a car to minimise the amount of fumes you inhale. Not the same situation as sitting at an outside table and having four people at the next table light up.
There’s also a difference between ‘belief that causes health problems’ and the proven correlation between second hand smoke and health issue – especially for children.
Your WiFi argument fails at an even greater level if you think that (if wifi really *does* cause health problems) that a sign at the door would prevent those health problems from extending beyond that border – wow, just like cigarette smoke!

How about driving an Automobile?

They say driving on the highway for an extended period of time (1 to 2 hours a day) is the equivelant to smoking 1-2 packs of cigarettes a day.

Does that mean we should ban autos?

There is a belief that wi-fi will cause health problems. Should wi-fi be banned now? Even on private property? What if you have wi-fi inhibiting paint, and the signal cannot get outside of the building? Does a person have a right to have it on private property?

How about in a eaterie? Wi-Fi inhibiting paint…a sign that says “Wi-Fi is used here.” You could choose not to go in, or not to be employed there. Same goes with smoking.

Personal note:
I am a smokers rights advocate. I do not smoke.
I have tried it. I did not like it. I do not mind second hand smoke. I feel highways do more damage to my lungs than smokers do. And I know my eating habits do worse than either.

You are not forced to go to any establishment that allows smoking. So, it’s more like you running your face into my outstretched fist.

Nick