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	<title>Comments on: Kicking Libertarians Out Of The GOP</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: trumpetbob15</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28368</link>
		<dc:creator>trumpetbob15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 01:38:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[js29,

While an inherent problem for third parties, there are ways around it.  However, look at many third parties and you see a party for the extreme of one side or the other that end up splitting the vote (such as the 1912 election did for Republicans).  I still stand by saying that one way to try to circumvent the inherent problem for the Libertarian Party is to work on getting Congressmen that are proud to be Libertarian, rather than the way Paul is Republican.  Is it fully the third party&#039;s fault?  No, but they aren&#039;t totally innocent by blaming the system.  While I know many of the ideas of the Libertarian Party, that is only because I actively sought them out.  They didn&#039;t have a high profile Senator or Representative that people could point to and say, &quot;See, Rep. X is Libertarian.  See how he votes?&quot;

By the way, I think I was mistaken a little.  From what I have read on the Libertarian Party website, there are state officials winning as Libertarian.  In this way, the Libertarians are starting to get name recognition.  I still think the emphasis is too much on national rather than on the local or district level.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>js29,</p>
<p>While an inherent problem for third parties, there are ways around it.  However, look at many third parties and you see a party for the extreme of one side or the other that end up splitting the vote (such as the 1912 election did for Republicans).  I still stand by saying that one way to try to circumvent the inherent problem for the Libertarian Party is to work on getting Congressmen that are proud to be Libertarian, rather than the way Paul is Republican.  Is it fully the third party&#8217;s fault?  No, but they aren&#8217;t totally innocent by blaming the system.  While I know many of the ideas of the Libertarian Party, that is only because I actively sought them out.  They didn&#8217;t have a high profile Senator or Representative that people could point to and say, &#8220;See, Rep. X is Libertarian.  See how he votes?&#8221;</p>
<p>By the way, I think I was mistaken a little.  From what I have read on the Libertarian Party website, there are state officials winning as Libertarian.  In this way, the Libertarians are starting to get name recognition.  I still think the emphasis is too much on national rather than on the local or district level.</p>
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		<title>By: js290</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28361</link>
		<dc:creator>js290</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 21:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tim,

Another thing that Fred G. Sanford has in common with the neo-cons is I think he once said, &quot;Do unto others before they can do it unto you.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tim,</p>
<p>Another thing that Fred G. Sanford has in common with the neo-cons is I think he once said, &#8220;Do unto others before they can do it unto you.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: js290</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28360</link>
		<dc:creator>js290</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 21:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28360</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[trumpetbob,

that&#039;s not really the 3rd party&#039;s fault.  It&#039;s an &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;inhernet problem in our voting system.&lt;/a&gt;  Without &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;proportional representation&lt;/a&gt; 3rd parties are doomed only to play spoiler.  In such a political system, two parties isn&#039;t really much better than one party.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>trumpetbob,</p>
<p>that&#8217;s not really the 3rd party&#8217;s fault.  It&#8217;s an <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duverger%27s_law" rel="nofollow">inhernet problem in our voting system.</a>  Without <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation" rel="nofollow">proportional representation</a> 3rd parties are doomed only to play spoiler.  In such a political system, two parties isn&#8217;t really much better than one party.</p>
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		<title>By: David Weller</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28250</link>
		<dc:creator>David Weller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 05:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28250</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brad,

Just as with anger, it&#039;s the personalization of power that&#039;s the problem.  Yes, a Congressman may have power, but personally abusing it is wrong.  Some Republicans are abusing power to exclude Paul from future debates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>Just as with anger, it&#8217;s the personalization of power that&#8217;s the problem.  Yes, a Congressman may have power, but personally abusing it is wrong.  Some Republicans are abusing power to exclude Paul from future debates.</p>
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		<title>By: Ugly American</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28248</link>
		<dc:creator>Ugly American</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 04:55:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28248</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ron Paul is a real Republican.

The national republican party leadership has been infiltrated by religious fascists and they are the ones that should be kicked out.  They are parasites with a stated goal of undermining the US Constitution and creating a theocracy.  (Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others in front of witnesses and on tape).

The reason they needed to take over the Republican party instead of starting their own is because 80% of American&#039;s don&#039;t want their crazy self-fulfilling apocalypse.  So they lie, cheat and steal all the while claiming it&#039;s for the &#039;greater good&#039; but I must have missed the 11th commandment that said the ends justifies the means.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul is a real Republican.</p>
<p>The national republican party leadership has been infiltrated by religious fascists and they are the ones that should be kicked out.  They are parasites with a stated goal of undermining the US Constitution and creating a theocracy.  (Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell and others in front of witnesses and on tape).</p>
<p>The reason they needed to take over the Republican party instead of starting their own is because 80% of American&#8217;s don&#8217;t want their crazy self-fulfilling apocalypse.  So they lie, cheat and steal all the while claiming it&#8217;s for the &#8216;greater good&#8217; but I must have missed the 11th commandment that said the ends justifies the means.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28238</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 02:36:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28238</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[G Anton,

The problem isn&#039;t the money, it&#039;s the power.  Take away the power, and nobody will be willing to spend money to gain influence, because that influence won&#039;t get them anything useful.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G Anton,</p>
<p>The problem isn&#8217;t the money, it&#8217;s the power.  Take away the power, and nobody will be willing to spend money to gain influence, because that influence won&#8217;t get them anything useful.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28234</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 01:59:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28234</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The best part of the Saul Anuzis 30 hour cut &amp; run surrender to Ron Paul was that you know, you just know, that the decision to lose the battle went a lot higher than Anuzis.  Does anyone think GOPAC chair Michael Steele who said, &quot;Paul is finished&quot; wasn&#039;t consulted?  How high did it go up the neo-con chain to cut &amp; run?  Wouldn&#039;t we love to find out if it went all the way to Rove?  If anyone has an email they want to leak...

I think the neo Republican party, like Fred Sanford, has its hands up around its heart right now.  Ron Paul is like one of those kids toys that just exploded worms all the neo-cons&#039; faces.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The best part of the Saul Anuzis 30 hour cut &amp; run surrender to Ron Paul was that you know, you just know, that the decision to lose the battle went a lot higher than Anuzis.  Does anyone think GOPAC chair Michael Steele who said, &#8220;Paul is finished&#8221; wasn&#8217;t consulted?  How high did it go up the neo-con chain to cut &amp; run?  Wouldn&#8217;t we love to find out if it went all the way to Rove?  If anyone has an email they want to leak&#8230;</p>
<p>I think the neo Republican party, like Fred Sanford, has its hands up around its heart right now.  Ron Paul is like one of those kids toys that just exploded worms all the neo-cons&#8217; faces.</p>
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		<title>By: trumpetbob15</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28232</link>
		<dc:creator>trumpetbob15</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 00:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28232</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem I see with the Libertarian Party is that the focus is on the Presidency.  Rather than go for the top spot, they need to start getting Congressmen that are libertarian and will put the &quot;L&quot; after their name, rather than an &quot;R&quot; like Ron Paul.  They need to show that they are different from the other two parties, rather than a subset of one or the other.  

This ties in with the problems with third-party candidates.  All too often, they represent a split in one party and end up giving the election to the other party.  Because of that fear, best shown in the 1912 election, many Republicans and Democrats will not vote third-party, even if they don&#039;t agree with the party platform.

Also, remember that until the 12th Amendment in 1804, everybody ran against each other leading to a tie between Jefferson and Burr in 1800, even though Burr was &quot;supposed&quot; to be Vice President.  This led to having a ticket of two candidates, one for Pres. and one for Vice, helping bring in party politics.  Then again, perhaps the greatest impediments to a third-party are the different ballot requirements.  Having to obtain signatures just to get on the general ballot forces third-parties to jump through a hoop the Democrats and Republicans don&#039;t have to face.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem I see with the Libertarian Party is that the focus is on the Presidency.  Rather than go for the top spot, they need to start getting Congressmen that are libertarian and will put the &#8220;L&#8221; after their name, rather than an &#8220;R&#8221; like Ron Paul.  They need to show that they are different from the other two parties, rather than a subset of one or the other.  </p>
<p>This ties in with the problems with third-party candidates.  All too often, they represent a split in one party and end up giving the election to the other party.  Because of that fear, best shown in the 1912 election, many Republicans and Democrats will not vote third-party, even if they don&#8217;t agree with the party platform.</p>
<p>Also, remember that until the 12th Amendment in 1804, everybody ran against each other leading to a tie between Jefferson and Burr in 1800, even though Burr was &#8220;supposed&#8221; to be Vice President.  This led to having a ticket of two candidates, one for Pres. and one for Vice, helping bring in party politics.  Then again, perhaps the greatest impediments to a third-party are the different ballot requirements.  Having to obtain signatures just to get on the general ballot forces third-parties to jump through a hoop the Democrats and Republicans don&#8217;t have to face.</p>
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		<title>By: G Anton</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28231</link>
		<dc:creator>G Anton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28231</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What would the Founding Fathers have to say about the role of money in current US politics? (the now famous &quot;military/industrial complex&quot; is simply a subset of this phenomena). . The old saying &quot;Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely&quot; should be rephrased &quot;Money corrupts, and the uncontrolled injection of money into politics corrupts universally and absolutely&quot;. 

For example, why is a natural and very effective sweetner from Brazil rejected by the FDA in favor of dangerous and otherwise unhealthy sweetners--is it eimply that these are more politically correct (i.e. much more profitable to industry)? Of course, that is the answer!

I don&#039;t think Ron Paul is corrupt--he does not have any money.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What would the Founding Fathers have to say about the role of money in current US politics? (the now famous &#8220;military/industrial complex&#8221; is simply a subset of this phenomena). . The old saying &#8220;Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely&#8221; should be rephrased &#8220;Money corrupts, and the uncontrolled injection of money into politics corrupts universally and absolutely&#8221;. </p>
<p>For example, why is a natural and very effective sweetner from Brazil rejected by the FDA in favor of dangerous and otherwise unhealthy sweetners&#8211;is it eimply that these are more politically correct (i.e. much more profitable to industry)? Of course, that is the answer!</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think Ron Paul is corrupt&#8211;he does not have any money.</p>
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		<title>By: Brazoria Proud</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28230</link>
		<dc:creator>Brazoria Proud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 May 2007 00:28:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28230</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If the Republican Party tries anything fishy in Brazoria, we would support a conservative Democrat. 

Love,
His District]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the Republican Party tries anything fishy in Brazoria, we would support a conservative Democrat. </p>
<p>Love,<br />
His District</p>
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		<title>By: Just another guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28216</link>
		<dc:creator>Just another guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 20:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28216</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The American constitution was written a few decades before the rise of organized political parties, and so the founding fathers did not anticipate the headaches that these groups would case.&quot;

George Washington was appalled by party politics, and spent much of his Farewell Address upon leaving the Presidency warning the American people against what he saw as a very great threat: &quot;I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.&quot;

The Founding Fathers were certainly alive and still influential during the rise of party politics.  George Washington&#039;s address may have helped hold party strength down for a while, but as can be seen from the current party system, only for so long...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The American constitution was written a few decades before the rise of organized political parties, and so the founding fathers did not anticipate the headaches that these groups would case.&#8221;</p>
<p>George Washington was appalled by party politics, and spent much of his Farewell Address upon leaving the Presidency warning the American people against what he saw as a very great threat: &#8220;I have already intimated to you the danger of parties in the state, with particular reference to the founding of them on geographical discriminations. Let me now take a more comprehensive view, and warn you in the most solemn manner against the baneful effects of the spirit of party, generally.&#8221;</p>
<p>The Founding Fathers were certainly alive and still influential during the rise of party politics.  George Washington&#8217;s address may have helped hold party strength down for a while, but as can be seen from the current party system, only for so long&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Weller</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28209</link>
		<dc:creator>David Weller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 18:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28209</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Isn&#039;t &quot;liberty&quot; only attainable in open politics?  Politics can be very bad or very good; power grabs may be good for some people, but not for the country.

http://www.allthingsreform.org/2007/05/our-nation-is-better-served-with-open.html]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t &#8220;liberty&#8221; only attainable in open politics?  Politics can be very bad or very good; power grabs may be good for some people, but not for the country.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.allthingsreform.org/2007/05/our-nation-is-better-served-with-open.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.allthingsreform.org/2007/05/our-nation-is-better-served-with-open.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: sickmind fraud</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28204</link>
		<dc:creator>sickmind fraud</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 17:59:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28204</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The American constitution was written a few decades before the rise of organized political parties, and so the founding fathers did not anticipate the headaches that these groups would case.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The American constitution was written a few decades before the rise of organized political parties, and so the founding fathers did not anticipate the headaches that these groups would case.</p>
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		<title>By: mind</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28201</link>
		<dc:creator>mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 17:42:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28201</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Nice concise response. Take a look at those poll numbers on the site. Now click on &#039;all poll data&#039;. Actually don&#039;t, it&#039;s not even worth it; you&#039;ll just get mad.

A pragmatic republican reason to not kick him out of the party would be to avoid splitting the vote between libertarian/republican supporters come the election. If the neocons truly have so much support, then they should put the money where their mouth is now, to avoid completely losing out come 2008. However, kicking him out of the debates would certainly get him a lot less media coverage at this time, and it&#039;s always in the big parties interest to control the media coverage.

It&#039;s too bad that our founding fathers didn&#039;t realize what a mess a two-party system would become with mass media, and opt for a voting system more conducive to multiple parties (i.e. a yes/no vote for each candidate running (think about what the candidates&#039; strategies would have to become).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice concise response. Take a look at those poll numbers on the site. Now click on &#8216;all poll data&#8217;. Actually don&#8217;t, it&#8217;s not even worth it; you&#8217;ll just get mad.</p>
<p>A pragmatic republican reason to not kick him out of the party would be to avoid splitting the vote between libertarian/republican supporters come the election. If the neocons truly have so much support, then they should put the money where their mouth is now, to avoid completely losing out come 2008. However, kicking him out of the debates would certainly get him a lot less media coverage at this time, and it&#8217;s always in the big parties interest to control the media coverage.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s too bad that our founding fathers didn&#8217;t realize what a mess a two-party system would become with mass media, and opt for a voting system more conducive to multiple parties (i.e. a yes/no vote for each candidate running (think about what the candidates&#8217; strategies would have to become).</p>
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		<title>By: T F Stern</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28192</link>
		<dc:creator>T F Stern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 May 2007 16:48:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/19/kicking-libertarians-out-of-the-gop/#comment-28192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[What the Republican Party should be interested with is that they have become the Democrats of the 50&#039;s and left behind conservatism as if it were an albatross.  While Ron Paul may not be the ideal poster boy for the â€œnewâ€ Republican Party, he does hold fast and true to his principles which are most definitely conservative.  He is a staunch supporter of Constitutional values as opposed to those who foist the â€œliving documentâ€ smoke and mirrors rationalization each time somebody wants to by pass and erode that documents intentions of upholding individual God given rights.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What the Republican Party should be interested with is that they have become the Democrats of the 50&#8242;s and left behind conservatism as if it were an albatross.  While Ron Paul may not be the ideal poster boy for the â€œnewâ€ Republican Party, he does hold fast and true to his principles which are most definitely conservative.  He is a staunch supporter of Constitutional values as opposed to those who foist the â€œliving documentâ€ smoke and mirrors rationalization each time somebody wants to by pass and erode that documents intentions of upholding individual God given rights.</p>
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