Comments on: Dinesh The Gun Totin’ Libertarian Is At It Again http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/ Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time. Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:35:02 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: UCrawford http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32281 UCrawford Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:47:12 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32281 The reason I say that D'Souza doesn't "get it" has less to do with any lack of mental capability on D'Souza's part and more to do with Ayn Rand's theory that many times people will do illogical and unproductive things simply because they believe it is the right thing to do. I'd say that D'Souza honestly believes that his theocratic slave state and a perpetual state of war to promote "liberty" are morally right, so he advocates them even though neither is likely viable in the long term. Same way I think Bush honestly believes on some level that what he's doing in Iraq is the morally right thing, so he advocates it even though it's not going to work and a lot of people have to die in the meantime to prove it. For my part, I hold the theory that if a position I hold is illogical, if it is not possible to implement, and if I have to lie to, misrepresent or force other people against their will to give up their lives and freedom to make my plan come to fruition, then that would make my position morally repellant (like the war in Iraq). That's what D'Souza and Bush don't get. To them "liberty" and "rights" are just privileges that the government/state/authority lets us have and they should be able to be withdrawn when the leaders deem it necessary or expedient. To most libertarians I know rights are something that we possess innately and that only we as individuals have the right to give away. D'Souza apparently doesn't accept that premise...which is why he doesn't "get it". The reason I say that D’Souza doesn’t “get it” has less to do with any lack of mental capability on D’Souza’s part and more to do with Ayn Rand’s theory that many times people will do illogical and unproductive things simply because they believe it is the right thing to do. I’d say that D’Souza honestly believes that his theocratic slave state and a perpetual state of war to promote “liberty” are morally right, so he advocates them even though neither is likely viable in the long term. Same way I think Bush honestly believes on some level that what he’s doing in Iraq is the morally right thing, so he advocates it even though it’s not going to work and a lot of people have to die in the meantime to prove it.

For my part, I hold the theory that if a position I hold is illogical, if it is not possible to implement, and if I have to lie to, misrepresent or force other people against their will to give up their lives and freedom to make my plan come to fruition, then that would make my position morally repellant (like the war in Iraq). That’s what D’Souza and Bush don’t get. To them “liberty” and “rights” are just privileges that the government/state/authority lets us have and they should be able to be withdrawn when the leaders deem it necessary or expedient. To most libertarians I know rights are something that we possess innately and that only we as individuals have the right to give away. D’Souza apparently doesn’t accept that premise…which is why he doesn’t “get it”.

]]> By: Cameron http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32151 Cameron Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:11:46 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32151 Dinesh's positions are never well thought out, and often take all of 10 minutes for me to debunk. That is pretty sad, considering he thinks of himself as highly educated, and I am a college dropout. There is tons of evidence the Founding Fathers never intended for America to enforce Liberty and Republican notions of Democracy at the end of a bayonet. Yes, Jefferson, Payne, the Adams men all believed these rights were universal, but they also realized in the end each human being must decide for themselves whether they will stand up and fight for their right to be free. Dinesh is a slave, and wants all of us to accept his slave to the state mentality. The state IS NOT more important than individuals. The state only exists because individuals allow it to exist. Keep pushing us, Dinesh/Bush/Cheney/Kristol. The 2nd Amendment exists for a reason. Dinesh’s positions are never well thought out, and often take all of 10 minutes for me to debunk. That is pretty sad, considering he thinks of himself as highly educated, and I am a college dropout. There is tons of evidence the Founding Fathers never intended for America to enforce Liberty and Republican notions of Democracy at the end of a bayonet. Yes, Jefferson, Payne, the Adams men all believed these rights were universal, but they also realized in the end each human being must decide for themselves whether they will stand up and fight for their right to be free. Dinesh is a slave, and wants all of us to accept his slave to the state mentality. The state IS NOT more important than individuals. The state only exists because individuals allow it to exist. Keep pushing us, Dinesh/Bush/Cheney/Kristol. The 2nd Amendment exists for a reason.

]]> By: Langston http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32146 Langston Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:04:08 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32146 We're not powerful. We're addicted to power. So addicted that we would rob our own grandchildren (via longterm public debt) to demonstrate that power. We’re not powerful. We’re addicted to power. So addicted that we would rob our own grandchildren (via longterm public debt) to demonstrate that power.

]]> By: JSW http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32127 JSW Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:26:34 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32127 I just can't accept that people like D'Souza don't 'get it'. These guys are highly educated, they HAVE to understand what is going on. No, I think they 'get it' just fine. And to my mind, the real question is why they don't want me to 'get it'. And then I am reminded that the boys who print dollars have an awful lot to lose if we all 'get it'. I just can’t accept that people like D’Souza don’t ‘get it’. These guys are highly educated, they HAVE to understand what is going on.

No, I think they ‘get it’ just fine. And to my mind, the real question is why they don’t want me to ‘get it’. And then I am reminded that the boys who print dollars have an awful lot to lose if we all ‘get it’.

]]> By: UCrawford http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32112 UCrawford Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:00:33 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32112 That's the thing about the rabid statists...they never get tired of telling us how we'd all be happier as slaves. There's just no reasoning with the hardcore members of that group. That’s the thing about the rabid statists…they never get tired of telling us how we’d all be happier as slaves. There’s just no reasoning with the hardcore members of that group.

]]> By: Fluffy http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32097 Fluffy Thu, 12 Jul 2007 18:41:10 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32097 D'Souza might be more credible if he wasn't on record as wanting a Straussian theocratic slave state and not a free society in any event. Maybe he should worry more about policy debates within the theocrat community, and stop trying to tell libertarians what foreign policy their ideals should support. D’Souza might be more credible if he wasn’t on record as wanting a Straussian theocratic slave state and not a free society in any event.

Maybe he should worry more about policy debates within the theocrat community, and stop trying to tell libertarians what foreign policy their ideals should support.

]]> By: UCrawford http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32089 UCrawford Thu, 12 Jul 2007 17:58:13 +0000 http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/12/dinesh-the-gun-totin-libertarian-is-at-it-again/#comment-32089 D'Souza is falling into the same trap that pretty much every statist does. Charity can be a good thing, it doesn't entirely wipe out poverty, therefore the government should start welfare programs and force everyone to be virtuous with their tax dollars. Medical care is expensive, not everyone can afford it, therefore the government should step in and force everyone to pay the medical bills of the poor. Same argument applies to liberty in the neo-cons' minds...individual freedom is a good thing, not every country in the world is as free as us, therefore the United States should overthrow every country we deem as "non-free" and force everyone to comply with our form of "free" government, whether they want to or not or. Guys like D'Souza and Bush just don't get what true freedom is all about. It's why, when you dig down into it, they're really no different than the liberals or the socialists or the fascists. At their core they don't really believe that liberty or virtue can be generated by individual choice or action, so they'll always push for the government to intervene and make our decisions for us. D’Souza is falling into the same trap that pretty much every statist does. Charity can be a good thing, it doesn’t entirely wipe out poverty, therefore the government should start welfare programs and force everyone to be virtuous with their tax dollars. Medical care is expensive, not everyone can afford it, therefore the government should step in and force everyone to pay the medical bills of the poor. Same argument applies to liberty in the neo-cons’ minds…individual freedom is a good thing, not every country in the world is as free as us, therefore the United States should overthrow every country we deem as “non-free” and force everyone to comply with our form of “free” government, whether they want to or not or.

Guys like D’Souza and Bush just don’t get what true freedom is all about. It’s why, when you dig down into it, they’re really no different than the liberals or the socialists or the fascists. At their core they don’t really believe that liberty or virtue can be generated by individual choice or action, so they’ll always push for the government to intervene and make our decisions for us.

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