Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.

July 24, 2007

Ron Paul, The Polls, And Reality

by Doug Mataconis

I’ve written enough about the 2008 Presidential Campaign in general, and Ron Paul specifically, to know just how the die-hard supporters are going to react to this post, but, nonetheless reality is reality, and, as Ayn Rand once said A is A.

In his case A would be the results of a poll showing just how well Ron Paul would fare against the undisputed Democratic Presidential frontrunner, Hillary Clinton:

The first national telephone survey by Rasmussen Reports of Republican Congressman Ron Paul’s presidential candidacy shows him trailing New York Senator Hillary Clinton by fifteen points and Illinois Senator Barack Obama by twenty.

Overall, the numbers show Clinton getting 49% of the vote when matched against Paul while the Republican hopeful picks up just 34%. Obama leads Paul 50% to 30%.

Among Republicans, Paul manages just 65% support when matched against Clinton and only 55% against Obama.

This isn’t an I-told-you-so moment for me. Yes, I’ve believed for a long time now that preaching individual liberty to an American public who had grown used to the idea that the state existed to provide for them was about as doomed to failure as you could get, but I’ve always held out hope that freedom would win out. If only half of the people who identify themselves as Republicans would even think of supporting Ron Paul (or, more importantly, the ideas he talks about) in `08 (and just in case you’re thinking about it, don’t even delude yourself with the idea that anything Ron Paul advocates would be supported in the Democratic Party), then we’re in far worse shape than I thought.

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  • Steve Dasbach

    If these are still the results after the first primaries, after people know who Ron Paul is and what he stands for, then you might have a point. Until then, this poll simply shows what we already knew — the people who get their news from the MSM (i.e. most voters) know next to nothing about any of the “second tier” candidates and have no basis to form an opinion.

  • rich

    a lot can change—for better or worse.
    if they get another new pearl harbor, like they want, maybe even Hillary or Obama could not hope to beat an anointed neo-con, such as Giuliani or Thompson. Then, there is the impossible miracle that people could actually wake up, get their heads out of whatever they have them in, then there’d be “Hope for America”. Absent any of the above, you may just be right.

  • rich

    However any “I told you so” moments will have to wait until next year.

  • Buckwheat

    Mataconis the Concern Blogger does not disappoint!

    Deftly avoiding usage of the specific word “long-shot,” he nevertheless paints a finely-wrought picture of mighty Hillary easily overpowering the unelectable elf Dr. Congressman Savior Ron Paul.

    Mataconis, people are just now getting to know who Ron Paul even is. Everyone knows who Hillary is.

    But why do I bother? It’s just Mataconis reassuring himself that Ron Paul will never, ever, ever be president, right? I mean, he has no chance, right? (fidgeting)

  • Carolyn

    It’s too early to place your money on the table.

  • Paul

    With the mainstream media blackout on him, that’s no surprise. This thing is far from over yet.

    We Ron Paul supporters know that we have a lot of work ahead of us to overcome the media bias, and the smaller budget that his campaign has to work with. I must say that he has done well with that so far.

    Another article described his campaign as a “juggernaut”. I couldn’t have picked a better word myself.

  • W Gary Johnson

    Whew! It’s a good thing for Ron Paul the election isn’t being held today. Where’s the Giuliani/Clinton matchup? Or Thompson v. Obama? Or are you really just saying Obama or Clinton could beat any Republican? All I see is that Ron Paul has a very strong core following when most of the country hasn’t even heard of him yet.

  • Joe

    Did you expect any different at this early inning of the ballgame? It’s not that people are against the messages of Dr. Paul, it’s that they haven’t had the opportunity to hear them. Dr. Paul wins over the people like no other candidate. He has support from die-hard loyalists who do what they do for the cause, not for the money.

    It’s way to early. Dr. Paul is going to shock the world.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Carolyn,

    Early it may well be, but I am gonna call this hand now, today, 7/24/07.

    (1) Ron Paul will not be the Republican nominee in 2008

    (2) The person who takes the Oath Of Office on 20 January 2009 will most emphatically not be a Republican.

  • PJN

    Granted, Dr. P’s election is a long shot – but if he is able to keep raising money over the next 2 quarters, he could enter the first 2 primaries with anywhere from 6 to 10 million. In California, NY or Fla – this isn’t a lot of money – but in Iowa and N.H. it means he will be able to advertise and get his message of peace out. If Iraq keeps on going badly, then Dr. P as the only peace candidate in a field of 9 or 10 and getting on 15-20 percent of the vote can narrowly win (especially in N.H where cross-over voting is permitted). If Dr. P wins these states, then he is the lead story in every news paper, tv show, website on the planet – and then my friends – this is where it starts to get really interesting.

    With that said – anyone who is for Dr. P needs to keep on contributing to the campaign in whatever way they can.

  • http://www.myspace.com/ms4ronpaul jason

    Another thing that nobody is addressing is that many of RP’s supporters don’t have land line phones. I can count the number of people I know with land line phones on one hand.RP is really striking cords with 18 to 35 year olds, big time. They all have cell phones and they will not be able to participate in traditional polls because they only call land line phones. Do you see my point. The polls only focus on an age group of about 40 and higher. Also as far as the republican polling I would say 90% of his support is not from registered Republicans.

    P.S. The media can’t suppress him forever.

  • Amy

    (1) Ron Paul will not be the Republican nominee in 2008

    (2) The person who takes the Oath Of Office on 20 January 2009 will most emphatically not be a Republican.

    Doug, these statements acknowledge what most do not, and that is, Hillary is the most established and more importantly embedded candidate , to succeed in the next election. I would have partnered her with Obama, but with the most recent events, I think the Hillary/Edwards ticket is more likely.

    With that in mind, Ron Paul stands a good chance!!

  • http://jwharton.com/wordpress Jason Wharton

    I am going to keep my hopes sky high and work like crazy to promote liberty as our founding fathers conceived of it. It’s best for everyone as long as we warm up to the idea of actually being mature and responsible enough as individuals to deserve it. That’s really the question is how deserving are we? Truly?

    I believe there is time for Ron Paul to have a grassroots firestorm sweep the nation and even if he fails to get elected perhaps there will be an anchor for freedom established that will prove effective somehow. It’s worth it to pour every bit of energy we can into Ron Paul despite the sleeping and deluded masses. It’s all contributory whether Ron Paul is elected or not.

    Let’s do it now while we can peacefully!

  • James Werner

    I think those numbers are great for a guy that no one really heard of 3 Months ago, aginst big business media whores like Clinton and Obama. (I knew about. I would like to see the poll after the debate between the guy who voted aginst the war and the wentch who voted for it who now says she is aginst it. And the debate between the Doctor who has never taken government paid health care and the drug company owned politician (ex-smoker) who wants socialized medicine. Lets see the polls after Dr.Paul has the chance to debate them.
    For now he will have to keep kicking the crap out of these war monger neocons in the Republican Party but he will get his chance to earn the respect of those who have not heard of him yet you wait and see.

  • Jamie Kelso

    Boy, Mr. Mataconis, you’re badly missing the significance of these poll numbers which show Hillary leading Ron Paul by 49% to 34% and Obama leading Paul by 50% to 30%. These numbers are, in fact, SPECTACULARLY encouraging for us Ron Paul Revolution fanatics. For Ron Paul to be doing this well in these two match-ups when he has a huge NAME RECOGNITION disadvantage against two names with 100% name recognition is remarkable. Ron Paul’s name recognition must still be in single digits with the overall public. It’s among the politically astute that the Ron Paul Revolution is ablaze right now. Watch Paul’s numbers soar as soon as he gets high name recognition. Clinton and Carter were both polling 1% numbers at this point, with low name recognition, as they headed for their wins as unknowns. Watch what happens when the Ron Paul Revolution swarms Ames, Iowa on August 11th at Iowa State University with the national press pretty much having to feature this event…that is, unless the Neocons have either: staged another false flag “terrorist” attack against the U.S., or; launched the expanded Middle East war for which they yearn.

  • NH

    Republicans who would vote for a Communist? Nahhh you must be kidding? Where have you been? Republicans ARE communists.. most of them.

  • Richard B.

    Since very few people have yet heard of Dr. Ron Paul, and even fewer have heard his message, any poll results this early in the election season (really it is the pre-season) are nothing more than a survey of name recognition.

    Carter and Clinton were similarly low in the polls (and name recognition) at this point in their respective winning bids.

    In my opinion, Dr. Paul is doing spectacularly well. To show my support, and to add fuel to accelerating momentum, I will give him another $100 this week.

    There is no better investment to secure our future well-being than to promote and defend our Liberty and Freedom.

  • Richard B.

    Oops! I should have read some of the other posts. Seems that a lot of us are making the same points.

    Just wanted to add… Ron Paul is more and more being called “the dark horse” candidate and the “underdog”. From a semantic point of view, this bodes very well, and suggests a sea-change in the media consensus regarding Dr. Paul’s prospects.

  • joshuabrucel

    I am elated and optimistic after this poll. Can you believe that Ron got 11% of the liberal vote and 15% of dems (in original Rasmussen article)? Pretty good for the most conservative member of congress. How much of the conservative vote did Hillary get? Really a superb showing for someone who has had maybe a month of real coverage and who is truly different. I can say as a die hard liberal of decades that my vote for Ron signifies something. This is a fight between socialism and our republic make no mistakes the contenders are Hillary vs Ron, and u know Americana will prevail God willing. Peace out.

  • Chris Lawton

    GO RON PAUL! GO RON PAUL! GOD BLESS RON PAUL!
    RON PAUL FOR PRESIDENT 2008!

    Ron Paul “Dream On” Video!!!!
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=IWfIhFhelm8

    Ron Paul “Don’t Tread On Me” Video
    http://youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8

    Ron Paul is a constitutionalist.

    Ron has never voted to raise taxes.
    Ron has never voted for an unbalanced budget.
    Ron has never voted for the Iraq War.
    Ron has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership.
    Ron has never voted to increase the power of the executive branch.
    Ron has never voted to raise congressional pay.
    Ron has never taken a government-paid junket.

    Ron voted against the Patriot Act.
    Ron votes against regulating the Internet.
    Ron voted against NAFTA and CAFTA.
    Ron votes against the United Nations.
    Ron votes against the welfare state.
    Ron votes against reinstating a military draft.

    Ron votes to preserve the constitution.
    Ron votes to cut government spending.
    Ron votes to lower healthcare costs.
    Ron votes to end the war on drugs.
    Ron votes to protect civil liberties.
    Ron votes to secure our borders with real immigration reform

    He does not participate in the lucrative congressional pension program.
    He returns a portion of his annual congressional office budget to the U.S. treasury every year.
    Congressman Paul introduces numerous pieces of substantive legislation each year, probably more than any single member of Congress.

    Listen To Ron Paul Speeches: http://www.ronpaulaudio.com
    Review over 100 Articles Ron Paul Authored by Subject:
    http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html

    How can you not love this guy listen to him he is truly a man who
    tells the truth “We The People” are taking our country back and
    restoring the original Constitutional Republic and returning Amerika
    back to America not the “United States of Surveillance”

    “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot
    survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable,
    for he is known and he carries his banners openly. But the traitor
    moves among those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling
    through all the galleys, heard in the very hall of government itself.
    For the traitor appears not a traitor—he speaks in the accents
    familiar to his victims, and wears their face and their garment, and
    he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He
    rots the soul of a nation—he works secretly and unknown in the night
    to undermine the pillars of a city—he infects the body politic so
    that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to be feared.

    — Cicero: orator, statesman, political theorist, lawyer and
    philosopher of Ancient Rome.

    “In the time of universal deceit, telling the truth
    is a revolutionary act” GEORGE ORWELL

    “None are more enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.”
    — Goethe

  • js290

    Republicans ARE communists.

    Fascists, actually…

  • eric

    Dude,

    you are so pessimistic. I kind of imagine you as some type of defeatist who hangs around his closet with his laptop all day.

    You can’t be serious about this recent poll. First of all, most people have never even heard of the guy. So that makes the poll useless.

    Do you really think the Republican base is going to nominate Rudy Giuliani of flip-flopper Mitt Romney? They’re leading in the polls now.

    If you believe that, I got a bill of goods to sell you.

  • Tim

    Most of us are not deluded. We know that Ron Paul is not very well known yet. Considering that he is pulling 1-2% in some MSM-type polls, and then garners 34% vs. Hillary? I think that’s exceptional. Hillary still beats Gouhliani and Romney and almost 100% have heard of them. The main difficulty for Paul is getting the message out.

  • http://grannymillerblog.blogspot.com/ granny miller

    Sure it seems like a long shot now, but here’s my prediction:

    Ron Paul will be nominated next September in Minneapolis

    John Edwards will run against him.

    Ron Paul will serve 1 term

  • http://thedailyburkeman1.blogspot.com/ C Bowen

    More “support” from Doug, LOL.

    Are you seriously comparing Ron Paul’s name recognition with the remainder of the GOP field or are you just reposting spin? This poll is proof positive Paul is the only one who can win.

  • ume

    It seems like Paul has already won with the young voters. If you look at the online polls at most places, read the comments beneath any video of his, and realize that “Ron Paul” is one of the most searched terms on Google, you cant help but get excited that a real grassroots movement will actually, for once, overcome the big media.

    anarcho-primitivists for Ron Paul!

    “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government” -ed abbey

  • Lost_in_Samoa

    Trolling again, I see. Oh well I should have expected it.

    Being a bought and paid for establishment shill you differ from most americans today. So much so that you are almost a different species. I’d call it “Homo Dependicus”. You need the reassuring voice of Big Brother/Sister whispering to you.

    People, This baffoon is not worth your time.

    Today I am going shopping. During that shopping trip I will distribute about 100 tri-fold flyers. I printed them up on my ink-jet while drinking my morning coffee.

    These will go to Walmart, the local hospital, Lowes, and where ever my travels take me. Each and every one I give out will be delivered with a smile and a bit of pleasant conversation about the good doctor.

    That is what I will do today. That is what I did yesterday. That is what I will do tomorrow.

    Funny thing is… I am in a smaller city in the midwest. There are 68 people in this town doing just what I am doing. Each and every day.

    Next week I am going to a Republican sponsored BBQ. And there I will talk about Dr. No and give away lots of information.

    Doug Matconis. He’s an anachronism.

    READ, RESEARCH, LEARN, Think for yourself. Be RESPONSIBLE for yourself.

    Sincerely

    Mark

  • http://disinter.wordpress.com/ disinter

    Doug Mataconis, Narcisism, and Reality

  • Darel99

    Doug,

    I for one have had enough…. You call yourself a supporter of Paul but looking at your historical writings you always provide some negative point of view. You sir are no true supporter of Ron Paul regardless of what you say.

    You have not taken into account the GOP sponsored straw polls held in many states where Paul has won or placed within the top 3. This is after all positive results even with his limited press coverage.

    I think it’s time the people who visit the liberty papers revolt against your pessimistic views and request that you be removed as a writer for Paul’s posts.

    Please provide a contact number or e-mail of the owner of the liberty papers and I will be glade to contact him/her to express my concerns and seek your replacement. I’m sure others who visit liberty hoping to read an article not posted by you would be glade to post future Ron Paul articles.

    How does everyone else feel about my request?

    It would be one thing to offer your views because you don’t support Paul. But when someone presents statements of support yet provide vile and unproductive tactics then it’s time for a change. In other words we question your motive and you asked for it with this post!

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/07/reparations-for-guam-insanity-squared/ Doug Mataconis

    LIM,

    Bought and paid for ? By whom ?

    It’s a lie

    Yes, I disagree with you and you disagree with me, but I frankly am not going to tolerate attacks on my integrity.

  • Dirk

    Clinton has whored herself for a long time now and people know who she is. Paul is virtually unknown at this point. That poll is irrelevant at this time.

  • Lost_in_Samoa

    Integrity? HAH!

    In my personal opinion you have no more integrity than Chuck Barris.

    But in the sense of fairness, I will apologize for the statement “bought and paid for”.

    A long a dedicated search for articles and papers authored by “Doug Matconis”, shows that your are not “bought and paid for”. Just rented.

    I stand corrected and I formally apologize.

    People…. READ, RESEARCH, EDUCATE YOURSELVES.

    BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELVES.

  • Kerry

    He trails the democratic favorite by only 19 points?????

    And most people don’t even know who he is…yet.

    Thats an incredible showing for someone who supposedly has only 2% in the polls.

    Don’t give up… wake up!!!!

  • Bob Moore

    A little early for that sort of talk. Let’s see how things look in November. I am encouraged and working hard to spread the word.

  • plc1

    Many Republicans communist? Hardly. Many of them are fascists like Bush’s grandfather though: http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2007/240707fascistcoup.htm

    You know really, as discussed previously, Ron Paul’s numbers in that poll are quite good considering Hillary and Obama have been household names for quite some time, and Ron Paul gets little or no mainstrean press. When he does get mainstream press, it’s usually littered with digs, like most blog pieces…

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/07/reparations-for-guam-insanity-squared/ Doug Mataconis

    LIM,

    I officially give up. I’ve tried to communicate to you and others what I think the Ron Paul campaign could realistically accomplish…..nothing less than bringing the libertarian wing made up of people like me back into the GOP.

    Is it the same as thinking about winning the White House ? Probably not, but in the long run it is both a more realistic goal and a more productive way of protecting liberty.

    Don’t worry, I won’t try to convince you on that point any more.

  • dp

    You certainly have a lot of faith in these polls. Much more than I do. At this point, these polls mean nothing.

  • AD

    I take away a very positive message from these numbers. %34 and %30? This guy is basically running a word-of-mouth, virtually unfunded campaign that hasnt even spent money yet. and 34 and 30 percent? Why is this news supposed to be bad again, someone please explain that to me…

  • Lost_in_Samoa

    Well Doug,

    Maybe, Just MAYBE, you should expand your boundries a little. You know, think outside of the box that has been prepared for you.

    To bastardize a quote from a popular movie,

    “you are so busy squabbling over the scraps from the big party/big money table”

    Mr. Matconis, perhaps you should be just a little less diligent in your acceptance of the place provided for you.

    Personally, I am not satisified with the “slot” that big government has allocated me.

    So I talk to people.

    I hand out flyers.

    I argue with people who insist that I get back in line and follow the established rules.

    In this case that is you Doug.

    People….

    READ
    RESEARCH
    THINK FOR YOURSELVES
    BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOURSELVES

    Sincerely

  • Charles

    The Rasmussen Poll indicates three things:

    1. Mainstream entities are recognizing the viability of Ron Paul’s campaign. Rasmussen has so far NOT done similar polls with many of the other candidates (e.g. Chris Dodd).

    2. For a candidate with very limited name recognition and media coverage to this point, Ron Paul is polling outstanding numbers. Other candidates’ numbers have been moving DOWN as people get to know them (or as their campaign chairs get arrested!) while Dr. Paul’s go UP as people learn more about him.

    3. Ron Paul MUST finish no lower than second in the Iowa straw poll. Romney is trying his best to buy the thing, and Rudy Giuliani & “Juan” McCain aren’t competing and F. Thompson won’t have yet declared. Several other guys – Brownback, Huckabee, T. Thompson, etc. – are betting the farm on August 11th, and anyone who finishes under 10% in Ames might as well pack it in (Ron Paul included, although his supporters are obviously the most energized and therefore most likely to compete with Romney). Knocking out even half of the single-digit guys means more airtime for Ron Paul at upcoming debates, which means his numbers will continue to rise. Cull the field to Rudy, Romney, McCain, Paul, Thompson and maybe Newt going into “Live Free Or Die” New Hampshire and things get reeeeeal interesting.

    BTW, anyone who knows anything about polling knows that several demographics which are potentially favorable to Ron Paul are NOT included in these polls. At this website:

    http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/candidates/Ron-Paul.html

    a pollster reveals some of the voters who are excluded:

    1. He cannot poll those that have never voted before. (Many Ron Paul supporters have never voted before.)
    2. He must ignore those that were never eligible to vote before (18-21). (This age group is likely to favor Ron Paul). Historically, 17% of primary voters are between 18-29. But from a polling perspective are probably only polled at a 10% rate.
    3. Although they make a conscious effort to restrict the number of voters to each area of the state, they cannot restrict the number of voters to a specific ethnicity. This could lead to inaccurate polling of candidates that appeal to a certain ethnic minority like Barack Obama or Bill Richardson.
    4. They cannot poll anyone that has recently switched voter registration (such as antiwar Democrats who have switched to Republican or Unaffiliated in order to support Ron Paul in the primary).

  • Amy

    Doug,

    Perhaps he’s not looking to bring libertarian wing back to the GOP. Just maybe he is trying to make the Libertarian Party popular. Thus, putting an end to the so-called two-party system!

    This makes sense to me. Previously, Dr. Paul has stated that he left the Libertarian Party because he spent too much time petitioning to get on state ballots and attend debates. Not that he changed positions. Further, his supporters cross all isles and include the disengaged. The number of disengaged are large enough to really throw the book makers!!

    I suspect that you really do not have a pulse on how huge the movement is within the Generation Y group. Stop by a net cafe or coffee house and mention the election–you would be amazed. I was very impressed-they are more engaged and educated about the candidates than their elders! This is not going to change because the momentum is swinging in the right direction. Another “Pearl Harbor” event would accelerate it!

    Viva La Change!

  • Bob

    This group would much rather be told that Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are real than be told the truth. (But given RP’s name recognition I was surprised how close the poll was.) Reality starts to set in on August 11 when Romney wins the Ames Straw Poll. Oh, BTW as a registered Republican of 30 years who plans to vote for Ron Paul,has made donations to his campaign, has made phone calls for him and who will soon write letters for him its nice that my fellow RP supporters think I’m a fascist or a communist. Please remember that RP is a REPUBLICAN member of congress and that he is running for the REPUBLICAN nomination for president.

  • Paul

    “Reality starts to set in on August 11 when Romney wins the Ames Straw Poll.”

    This too has yet to come to pass. I’m willing to let things run their course.

  • http://www.dinksfinance.com James

    A good posting, thanks.

    I like RP and especially his ideas on limited government, civil rights and the war in iraq. I think Bush has alienated many other countries by acting like a jerk with his policies.

    Plus, its Unamerican to give federal police agencies surveillance power free of court oversight. This undermines the rules we’ve been following for the past 200 years. There isn’t a good enough reason to change these rules now.

    Best,

    James

  • Don Lockwood

    Considering that Dr. Paul is the ONLY presidential candidate who is purposely blacklisted by the MSM, I am very encouraged by these poll numbers. A large percentage of people react very favorably after hearing RP’s message. The key to a Ron Paul victory is simply getting his message out. Ron Paul’s support and political standing continue to increase daily, while the others decline. RP’s supporters should be encouraged at this early stage of the game. Personally, I have registered to vote for the first time in 30 years due ONLY to hearing Ron Paul’s message. As for Brad’s dire predictions for Ron Paul… Don’t you believe it. Ron Paul will shock the world.

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/07/reparations-for-guam-insanity-squared/ Doug Mataconis

    Perhaps he’s not looking to bring libertarian wing back to the GOP. Just maybe he is trying to make the Libertarian Party popular. Thus, putting an end to the so-called two-party system!

    How is running as a Republican going to help the helplessly hopeless Libertarian Party ?

  • Darel99

    Hi,

    I have noticed some attacked on republican’s on this post and if it wasn’t for Ron Paul I would have changed my political affiliation to Independent. I think most who post on this forum are not republicans… Let me make it perfectly clear. I did in fact vote for Bush but I would have never supported his Neocon views which were not apparent to me until the last few years.

    So lets stop the party bitch session and focus on the real issues.

    Sure the hope of the third party would be a great idea and I support such ideals but let’s face it it’s a two party system. If he ran as another form Paul would not be allowed in any debate and his message would never be heard. The fact is if it wasn’t a two party system they would have limited control while it’s easier to control two parties.

    The real issues are:

    The decline of the dollar

    Repeal the Real ID Act

    Return our troops home

    End the NAU, NAFTA, CAFTA

    and of course

    End the Income Tax.

    Together if we all support Dr. Paul he will along with his supporters can help make broad changes and regardless of what you deem as our party the list above should appeal to everyone.

  • Uiop

    I don’t really understand why you libertarians feel the necessity to slit each others’ throats at every turn. Some of you give off an aura of powerful loserdom. This guy who purports to be a Ron Paul supporter acts like one of the biggest losers and most adamant defeatist I would ever have the dismay of being on the “same team” as me. I want Ron Paul to win the nomination. This guy acts like an asthmatic nerd in the middle of a football game. Or worse, like a Vichy spokesman in the midst of a group of French Rebels in Paris circa 1941.

    If the Liberty Papers would just stop acting like controlled opposition, or basically traitors, you guys would make so much more progress.

    But I guess that’s the problem with Libertarians: they’re all too “smart” for their own good and end up mired in pathetic squabbling. From now on, I’m going to consider thelibertypapers.org to be a controlled opposition, infiltrated, traitorous, toxic wellspring.

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/07/reparations-for-guam-insanity-squared/ Doug Mataconis

    Yes, how unlibertarian it is of us to not all be lock-step conformists.

  • Darel99

    It’s time Doug is removed on the so called expert on the ron paul section….

    Doug, has not provided the info sought so I will have to search domain information.

    It’s time for a Doug Mataconis revolt…. You know a free market revolt where we are not buying what he is selling any longer….

  • Uiop

    Nah it’s simply a matter of infiltrated losers like yourself feeling a hilarious need to present a self-declared benchmark with the message being “you will lose, you will lose, you will lose..” Over and over and over again, libertarians defeat themselves because they prize their godly individual fatalism over a cause that would advance libertarian thought across the entire spectrum. Electing Ron Paul is such a cause, but promoting and projecting your own fatalism is paramount as always. It’s gross dude, and you’re gross.

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/05/07/reparations-for-guam-insanity-squared/ Doug Mataconis

    Darel,

    Don’t worry, like I said, I’ve given up posting about Ron Paul.

    On to better things.

  • JohnnyB

    Relax, Ron only has Rudy,Romney and possibly Thompson(will not last even if he gets in)to leapfrog, McCain is done. So Ron needs about 7 -10 million raised this cycle. Most people are not paying attention yet. Ron will get his money. Just imagine for a moment as the economy wilts, bank stocks are hit and oil is high, the war is draining our resources and the dollar is whacked more, this time next year? The only one to have told you the perils of Faux money printing is Ron, the dangers on not letting Congress declare war, Ron.The dangers of private bankers, Ron. Its all going his way as time presses on.

  • Seth

    most of ron paul’s supporters are young and don’t own land lines. your conclusion is thus incorrect.

  • Amy

    How is running as a Republican going to help the helplessly hopeless Libertarian Party?

    As you well know the Libertarian Party has not been able to get the message out to the mainstream. Most republicans hear liber and assume liberal. Actually, I have had more success getting my most staunchly liberal democrat friends to look into, even buy into, libertarian viewpoints. (Looong before Dr. Paul was “fashionable”) Running as a Republican, espousing libertarian-like concepts, Dr. Paul can turn people on to the concept, without having to explain the “label”. No one really thinks he is going to turn around the Republican party, they know he needs the label to participate in our two-party system. Once educated these same voters can continue to vote for Libertarians at the local and state levels.

    For decades I have been frustrated at the lack of organizing power of the LP. This is the closest I have seen– and it’s not the LP doing it–only the concept.

    I am hopeful that Michael Badnarik is calling for the LP to take a look at Dr. Paul for the nomination. ( BTW, so is the Constitutionalist Party) With the current momentum, we the people will be able to call for a 3rd party on all state ballots.

    It can be done, with the right strategy.

  • Jennifer

    I’d have to disagree with the notion that Democrats are not going to be swayed by Ron Paul. There have been a growing number of people, including myself, that were part of the Democratic party (more for an alternative to the Bush Administration than anything) that have re-registered as Republicans for the sole purpose of being able to vote for Ron Paul in the primaries. The word is spreading, and I have seen dozens of people in my small circle that have made the switch. Obviously, we have to help him through the primaries if anyone is going to have a chance to vote for him.

  • Darel99

    To: Amy.

    I have noticed your posts and I apreatiace your out of the box views and ideals.

    We both realize Paul has “rocked the party” but he also has to play some things safe. Sure, his planes for income tax and many other planes our for sure out of the box but in order for him to obtain the nomination he will have to have a fellow Rep as VP.

    History tells us that Reagan was so popular with the people but a back deal was made with G H Bush as VP. After Reagan’s shooting Bush is said to have ran the office more so then Reagan.

    Since our gov is entangled with the Fed Reserve and if Paul wins the nomination I doubt Paul will have much choice for a VP as he should. Sure, he may want to pick someone and he will insist but history tells us their are greater powers to deal with.

    Regarding a 3rd party system… For sure we should have a 3,4,5 party system but such effects should have been supported in place over the last many years since Ross ran. To consider such a measure now is to close for the electoions for this to occur. For sure you didn’t imply this but I wanted other readers to focus on the point.

    As I see it this election may be the only time in our nations history where we can effect change. If we don’t have Paul in office we will contiune to see a loss of freedom.

    Have you read PD 51? Visit the whitehouse’s site and read it in detail. Once you read it you will see why I’m so concerned.

    Anyway, where every you may live have a wonderful afternoon.

  • cfountain72

    Sounds banal, but we are still waaay early in this thing. I still routinely run into people who have never heard of Ron Paul. Obviously, this is bad news in that we still have a lot of work to do, just to get his name out there. The good news is that there are lot of people who are looking for a guy like Ron Paul…they just don’t know he exists.
    For myself, I had not heard of him until April of this year, and before that basically considered sitting this election out, or just submitting a protest vote. Now I’m donating, volunteering, driving…whatever little part I can do to help. It is safe to say that even if someone who claims RP’s convictions steps up, we may never again see someone with his record in our lifetimes

    Now let’s quit the bitchin’ and get ‘er done! We need anyone who wants to see this happen get out and meet some (new) people. The low hanging fruit has already been picked. Get out of your comfort zone. Go to RP2008 and get a phone list. Start smilin’ and dialin’ the nice folks in Iowa. This is what politics is about, even in the age of the Internet. Good Luck!

    …and peace be with you.

  • robert haley

    A few observations:

    Barry Goldwater lost to Lyndon Johnson by 23 percentage points. McGovern lost to Nixon by 22 percentage points. Ron Paul, with extremely low name recognition, is only trailing Hillary by 15 points. That’s very good news. I wouldn’t have expected it to be this close.

    Ron Paul doesn’t have to beat Romney in the Iowa Straw Poll or even finish second. What he has to do is finish well above the other second-tier candidates. He needs to establish himself as the second tier guy who needs to be watched. The one who pulls away from the rest of the pack.

    Rudy Giuliani peaked in Feb. when he was pulling 45-50% in the polls. So far in July two polls, IPSOS and Zogby have him at only 21%. Zogby actually has him trailing Fred Thompson. His campaign appears to be approaching a free-fall. He may soon go the way of McCain.

    If Ron Paul finishes high in Iowa, we may see a three-way race between Paul, Romney and Fred Thompson. This could also give a big boost to Paul’s campaign in New Hampshire which is even more anti-war than Iowa.

    By the beginning of 2008, no candidate is going to be viable in the general election without an exit strategy in Iraq. That’s why Republicans are pushing Bush to change strategy himself so they can shift positions without appearing to be disloyal.

    If Bush doesn’t change course dramatically in Iraq, look for Romney to shift his position toward an exit strategy. Thompson will have to do the same thing if, in fact, he doesn’t turn out to be just a flash in the pan like Giuliani and McCain.

    The Ron Paul candidacy is not just an anti-war candidacy. It is an anti-interventionist candidacy. As such, it has far more appeal to the Left than the usual Republican attempts at mere “me-too” politics.

    If Ron Paul were to win the GOP nomination, he would force Hillary or Obama or whomever to reassure the Left that they won’t pursue the standard American policy, not just in Iraq, but in the entire Middle East and in much of the world.

    What makes it unlikely that Paul would win is the fact that his candidacy would split the Republican Party. Too many people have cast their lot with the neo-cons without realizing that it was a pretty leaky boat to begin with.

    Another problem is that Ron Paul is unwilling to tailor his message to whatever he thinks the voters want to hear. Of course, that’s a big part of his appeal. But in the end, most voters tend to vote their immediate, rather than their long-term, interests.

    But, then again, maybe that’s because they’ve never really had a candidate who gave them the choice.

  • http://paul4prez.blogspot.com Doug

    When I saw this poll, I almost jumped up and started celebrating. Not only did Rasmussen include him in a head-to-head matchup (which is usually reserved for only the top 3 or 4 contenders in each party), he came out with a 20% approval rating and lower negatives than Hillary Clinton!

    If 20% of the people already have a positive opinion of Ron Paul, despite the limited news about him, the campaign is doing much better than anyone could have predicted. In another six months, who knows how high that rating could be?

    38% rated Ron Paul negatively, but I think we can safely assume that more exposure to Ron Paul’s ideas and record could bring this number down, while the negatives for Hillary Clinton aren’t going anywhere.

  • Amy

    Generation Y represents approx. 65 million; approx 30 million eligible voters. This is a huge potential Ron Paul base. Ron Paul knows this! http://www.newvotersproject.org/voting-101

    Plainly stated, Generation Y’s hate hypocrisy– Like, wuzup with all that constitution stuff we had to learn, it’s like not real. Politicians are bogus!

    These kids have been “zero-toleranced” to death. Individualism is important to them, E.g. tattoos, piercing, hair colors, (ironically they resemble a collective body). Privacy is important to them. They are intelligent non-conformists. They also have no fear of destroying and starting over.

    Just a few things to consider before dismissing Ron Paul’s potential.

  • http://www.thedunmore.com Poffy The Cucumber

    RE: RON PAUL, THE POLLS AND REALITY.
    I don’t see the big problem with Dr. Paul’s polling numbers. The fact that he is actually being mentioned alongside Hillary and Obama now(i.e. scary enough to be considered a viable contender – even if just to be shot down) is frightening the bejesuz kryst out of EVERY candidate – on both sides of the aisle.

    Remember, people of America, there are 15 MORE MONTHS TO GO before elections. If RP has risen this high exponentially in just two quarters, well…

    His polling numbers might be considered disgraceful if he was a media-drenched front-runner (yo, McCain!) but this is a Dark Horse, sprinting up the outside of the curve; someone who has been marginalized by the Darth Media whores who are bought out by the same corporations funding the front runners. He should realistically NOT EVEN BE ANYWHERE NEAR H OR O – but he is!

    I see that polling glass as half full. I’m a bigger cynic than most of the RP fanatics, but these polls are still STRAW (which is, to the young readers, another dumb euphemism meaning HAVING NO BEARING WHATSOEVER TO THE OUTCOME OF THE REAL ELECTION).

    If there are other obstacles at work – besides blood money/lies money funding the front runners and their saturation advertising, I’d like to know, sincerely. But basing the concept of winning or losing on STRAW POLLS is starting to twist my knickerbockers.

    Visit my Ron Paul Page and Leave A Comment – I’d love to hear from other supporters.
    http://www.thedunmore.com/Writings_RonPaul-PresidentialCandidate2008.html

  • Amy

    Darel-

    I have read NSPD-51, as well as the most recent EO signing on 7/17/2007.

    This topic would require its own thread!!

    Peace!

  • http://www.myspace.com/jedimetroid Julius Beasley, Greenville NC

    a lot can change indeed

    both bushes had 80% approval ratings at one time

  • Darel99

    To Amy

    Great point about generation Y. I just gave a speech at the College of Wiliam and Mary in Va about the reasons to vote for Dr. Paul. I had listed a free pizza party and did this event alone but with three others helping. We had 40 kids fill out the form for voting and i recorded clips of of youTUBE of Paul and the people loved him.

    Later that afternoon I went to a metal concert and the band speaks out about the New World Order I think I counted 120 at the show and the band who I know gave me 10 min to talk about freedom of speech and music and told them about Ron Paul… I had 52 kids ages 21-24 who gave me their contact info and they want to be a part of my extended Ron Paul group.

    Folks I’m telling you all you have to do is take action and spread the word and things will happen. The band and I are going to hold a concert for Ron Paul to raise cash. I know for a fact during the concert we raised just over $300 which is small but one of the members whipped out a laptop and kids were donating $15-20 bucks. The band members think they can help raise $4,000.

    Now keep in mind I’m a business owner in my early 40’s. So Amy I share this with you and others to confirm Amy is correct about your earlier posting.

    To end Paul isn’t a hard sell at all. Can you imagine what a hard sell Rudy would be to the y crowd? I simply introduced Paul as the coolest grandpa they would ever vote for. It seemed to work.

    In closing I’m really thankful for your postive ideas and views. You bring more to this post then Doug ever did.

    If your ever in Va you will have do dinner with my girldfriend and I.

    Live well,

    Darel

  • Todd

    I don’t believe 30% of people are even aware of Ron Paul yet, so these poll numbers are encouraging to me. If he does win the nomination, people will know who he is and he stands an excellent chance of defeating Obama or Clinton.

  • Dick Allen

    I agree Mataconis. But I am elated about the new group of Libertarians surfacing, and the growing group of Republicans who are awakening from their slumber, and remembering what happened in 1994.

    I’m so sad about our country. The experiment is way off course. Like Jefferson said, If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. The people who vote in our country are ignorant. They vote for what they are told is in their own interests, not because they understand what the consequences or results of their vote is.

    Everyone is an idiot. What can we do?

  • JohnnyB

    Well, I said yesterday the economy will wilt, oil will rise and bank stocks will get whacked. No doubt in my mind people will look for an alternative as time presses on, its only getting worse and the only one who told you about this is Ron Paul. 300 points today picked up a few more disgruntled voters, tired of counterfiet money being printed for these foreign causes. Wait a few more months and you will be amazed at the state of the US economy, brought to you by incompetent leaders not following the constitution. Illegal wars,and oil and military defecit spending does not make a good economy. Ron, if nominated will win in a landslide like Reagan, any other necon will lose in a landslide.

  • Amy

    Darel,

    I sense your passion–keep it going. At the end of the day you will at least be able to to look at the man in the glass and say: “I did my part- I tried to part of the solution!”

    The rest… well, they can keep playing the propagandized “numbers game”. As long as I vote with my conviction, I will have never wasted my vote. This in my opinion is the difference from a leader versus a follower. I hope some day, that my vote will give others permission to vote for their convictions and the not, the lesser of two evils. I don’t need my past or present vote recognized in some politician’s biography (ehh hmmm), it is in my heart always.

    Democracy is being allowed to vote for the candidate you dislike least. ~Robert Byrne

  • RonCantrell

    Ron Paul has been around for a long time down here in Texas. The fact is, he’s batshit crazy and always has been. He is sort of like a stopped clock,youknow, right occasionally, the rest of the time just disfunctional and totally wrong.

  • http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/07/24/ron-paul-the-polls-and-reality-2/#comment-33506 js290

    Ron Paul has been around for a long time down here in Texas. The fact is, he’s batshit crazy and always has been. He is sort of like a stopped clock,youknow, right occasionally, the rest of the time just disfunctional and totally wrong.
    Comment by RonCantrell — July 28, 2007 @ 2:30 pm

    I’ve also read on this intrawebs that he’s racists and an isolationist. Can you give more insight?

  • Monitor

    I guess neocons and neocon-liberals are the picture of sanity then, eh?

  • uiop

    so texas elected him to congress 10 times while he’s batshit crazy? man, imagine how easy it must be for the sane people to get elected in TX

  • robert haley

    Actually, Ron Paul does rather poorly compared to other 2nd tier candidates in match-ups against Hillary and other Democrats. Brownback and Huckabee are both within single digits of Hillary.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/favorables/election_2008_democratic_candidates_running_in_2008_presidential_election

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