The fact that he knows how to get things done in a corrupt system makes him a good politician. I’m glad we have someone like him fighting for Huckabee in the House. Just because he plays a corrupt game doesn’t mean anything he did was illegal (which would be wrong). All politicians are corrupt, but you’ll be hard pressed to find one as uninfluenced by corruption as Mike Huckabee.

The Fair Tax in its current form and the subsequent abolition of the IRS is revenue neutral with the benefit of discouraging all types of consumption. In its current form, there is no social engineering, no discrimination between different type of spending. In its current form, there is a negative tax for all tax units. This will be the EITC in a better form. There is no longer discouragement for increasing income by working more. There is only discouragement for increased spending. And in the abolition of the IRS, we rid ourselves of the tremendously harmful payroll taxes, SS and Medicare, that harms American workers, and we rid ourselves of the piles and piles of paper work on tax day. Excellent, excellent proposal from the perspective of left-leaning libertarians.

The Fair Tax is certainly better than the IRS. If it remains in its current form, it’s not a small improvement.

However, the federal government does not have a balance budget at the moment. The federal government is still too big even if it were to balance its budget.

Sometimes it’s just best to concede the math issue for the ignorant; we can only hope they know how to think.

OK so the FairTax is a 30% sales tax, BUT, it’s applied to goods & services after a 23% across the board discount!!! Huh, get it? How about them apples???

Let’s see $100 jacket… less 23% embedded income tax costs = $77 real cost of garment.

So $77 garment and 30% sales tax (or $23) = $100 sale price. Get it???

———

Each year we spend hours of time getting ready for April 15, and hundreds of $$$ for accountants, or tax software… and for what? They produce nothing of value. The work product is overhead.

The FairTax can be collected with a few lines of code in the cash register. Simple, you see it immediately, you can alter your behavior to suit your situation. Tax planning becomes a thing of the past; financial planning can be done to suit you and your family, not the gummint…

So I should shell out money for your group’s book or STFU about the wisdom of your ideas? How many pro-income tax books did you read before calling for its abolition?

Here’s an idea, instead of insulting those you wish to convert to your view, how about talking to them in a rational, calm manner?

I’ve had several debates (here and here) with FairTax supporters, and so far I’ve been underwhelmed. With a few notable exceptions, its defenders have tended to slide into hysterical ad-hominems the moment their assumptions are questioned.

In my experience this is a sign of weak theory.

Any FairTaxer, when pressed, will tell you that the 23% tax rate is defined as a tax-inclusive rate. The rate is calcuated as R=Tax/(Tax+Price). The 29.87% rate (approx. 30%) is what is called the tax-exclusive rate, calcuated by R=Tax/Price. The confusion lies in the fact that these two rates are thrown around without being defined as inclusive/exclusive and each side refuses to compare properly.

The main point of confusion lies at what kind of tax we compare the Fairtax to. The 23% rate is used to compare the Fairtax to a flat income tax of the same rate. But the 30% rate is used to compare the Fairtax to the typical state sales tax, which is figured on a tax-exclusive basis. If you buy $100 of groceries with a 5% sales tax, you will pay $105. Under the Fairtax, that $100 purchase will rise to $129.87. So, the Fairtax is a 30% sales tax as we currently compute sales taxes.

But a 30% sales tax figures likes a 23% income tax. For example, let’s say that you made $10,000 and spent it all (we’ll forget the prebate for now, for simplicity). That 10,000 consumption includes both the price of the products and the tax you had to pay. Since the FairTax is equal to a 23% income tax, the amount of tax paid is 2300. And 2300/7700 is 30%.

I think that the FairTaxers are disingenuous when they use the 23% rate for their propaganda. Since we all think of sales taxes in a tax-exclusive way, they should state the 30% tax-exclusive rate. When critics call their bluff, they try to say that the critics are comparing apples and oranges by not stating the rate that the Fairtax would be if it were an income tax, like our current system. But the Fairtax is a sales tax and should be quoted using the appropriate rate. No one would would ever think of their 5% sales tax rate as like a 4.76% income tax; likewise, we should think of the Fairtax as a 30% rate, not a 23% rate.

So Samantha, I’m assuming you can prove that they bought them FOR Huckabee in violation of their tax status and not just FairTax supporters to vote as they chose? After all, the majority of the candidates were “Yes” on the FairTax scorecard.

I’m assuming you’re discounting other campaigns because they bought tickets for ALL their supporters and bussed them in? Huckabee did neither.

Please confirm accusations before you say a leading national tax reform non profit violated FEC laws. I was in the FairTax straw pol tent and can tell you they didn’t even ask if you supported the FairTax, non the less who you were going to vote for.

I am not totally sold on the FairTax from an implementation perspective, but you are grossly distorting the tax rate. The FairTax is 23% meaning if something cost $100, the tax is $23. (23 divided by 100 is 23%.) However, your 30% number comes from the wrong formula. To get 30%, it would be to take the $100 purchase, subtract the $23 in tax (giving $77) and then take $23 divided by $77.

This wouldn’t be a problem, but our current system isn’t set up that way. To try and make it less complicated, assume that there are no graduated steps i.e. if you make $100,000 it is all taxed at 35% rather than part taxed at one percentage and another part taxed at a higher percentage. Given that assumption, if someone makes $100,000 then they pay $35,000 in taxes, or 35% of their income ($35,000 divided by $100,000). This method is consistent with the FairTax being 23%. In order to get the current system to mimic your claim of the the FairTax being 30%, then we would take that $100,000 in income, subtract $35,000 (leaving $65,000) and then take $35,000 divided by $65,000 (giving 54%). So really, in order to claim the FairTax is 30%, you would also have to argue that our current system is closer to taxing rich people at 54% (less some for deductions and the other unnecessary complications of our convoluted tax code), something most FairTax critics don’t want to admit.

Hopefully I have made my math simple enough to understand. Because I have an accounting degree, I tend to overcomplicate things. True consistency is a must for rational debate. If you don’t like the FairTax, at least compare apples to apples when you make your case.

I can’t believe how blind some people can be. So what if you loose all the deductions and credits you refer to. You will receive 100% of your pay check so why would you need them? And here goes the old 30% argument again. It’s simple, when you buy something 23% of the purchase price goes to the government not 30%. If you pay $100 for an item, the government will receive $23.00 not $30.00.

1. The Home Mortgage tax deduction – no more deduction your mortgage interest – no incentive to buy a house.
2. The Per-Child tax deduction for dependants – no more help for large families.
3. The deduction for State and Local taxes – tack on the taxes.
4. The College Tuition tax deduction – sorry kids.
5. Roth IRA – will be taxed twice because your money is taxed again when you spend it.
6. Charitable Contributions deductions – no help for the faithful.
7. Child Care Credits – no more help for single moms and poor families with kids.
8. Refinancing Points deduction – no more incentive to refinance.
9. Health Insurance Premiums deduction – no more help for the sick.

This is what we gain under the FairTax:
1. New 30 percent tax on every New House or property you buy.
2. New 30 percent tax on Cars, Boats, Campers, Home Appliances, TV’s
3. New 30 percent tax on Food, Clothing, Shelter, Rent, Electricity, Gas, Phone Service
4. New 30 percent tax on Medicine, Surgical procedures, Hospital stays, Dental Services
5. New 30 percent tax on Legal Services, Trial Services, Legal Advice, Legal Winnings and losses.
6. Double Taxation on Roth IRA’s or retirement money you took as a lump sum.
7. Your consumption is now directly linked to inflation – prices go up – your taxes go up.

See fairtaxfraud.com for the truth about this horrible bill.