Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.

“People constantly speak of the government doing this or that, as they might speak of God doing it. But the government is really nothing but a group of men, and usually they are very inferior men. They may have some better man working for them, but they themselves are seldom worthy of any respect.”     H. L. Mencken

September 19, 2007

Rudy Giuliani Flunks Geography

by Doug Mataconis

Apparently, the former Mayor of New York thinks that the North Atlantic Ocean extends alot further than most of us might have thought:

Republican presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani urged NATO to admit Australia, India, Israel, Japan and Singapore on Wednesday as part of proposals to combat Islamic extremism.

Okay, so maybe its time for a history lesson here.

The North Altantic Treaty Organization (NATO) was founded in the years after World War II primarily for the purpose of resisting Soviet expansion in Europe. The last time I checked, the Soviet Union didn’t exist anymore. And, notwithstanding my public school education, I’m pretty sure that Australia, India, Israel, Japan, and Singapore are not in Euorpe, and that none of these nations are under the threat of Soviet domination.

I’m not saying that America doesn’t have international interests with these nations worth protecting, but I do wonder why an organization created to counter a threat that no longer exists insists on expanding itself.

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13 Comments

  1. its necesary to expand Nato ..in Asia ,sooner or alter a great game will start..its already initiate….its all about chinese dominance,we must have axis of democracy in asia to counter chinese growing might.

    Comment by Debarshi Malakar — September 19, 2007 @ 11:12 pm
  2. Giuliani is just another piece of CFR trash.

    Comment by Buckwheat — September 19, 2007 @ 11:20 pm
  3. Debarshi:

    its necesary to expand Nato ..in Asia ,sooner or alter a great game will start..its already initiate….its all about chinese dominance,we must have axis of democracy in asia to counter chinese growing might.

    Alliances are based on mutual interests. What interests does continental Europe share with Australia, Japan, Israel, India, and Singapore?

    Comment by Kevin — September 19, 2007 @ 11:30 pm
  4. Alliances are based on mutual interests. What interests does continental Europe share with Australia, Japan, Israel, India, and Singapore?

    You know..Stuff.

    They are all countries ! Lets expand NATO some more.

    Comment by Jono — September 20, 2007 @ 1:07 am
  5. Rudy Giuliani or Vampire Ghouliani?

    Comment by alec — September 20, 2007 @ 9:15 am
  6. Thank you Mayor Rudy for reminding me why I support Ron Paul and not you. Ron Paul understands foreign policy and you don’t. Why I’m at it Rep. Paul is also right (and you’re wrong) on abortion, gun control, border security, etc. etc.

    Comment by Bob — September 20, 2007 @ 11:38 am
  7. Thank you Mayor Rudy for reminding me why I support Ron Paul and not you. Ron Paul understands foreign policy and you don’t. Why I’m at it Rep. Paul is also right (and you’re wrong) on abortion, gun control, border security, the economy, health care, taxes, spending, the proper role of government, etc. etc.

    Comment by Bob — September 20, 2007 @ 11:43 am
  8. I will begin by noting that Mr. Giuliani’s foreign policy ideas, as presented in his essay in Foreign Affairs, are dangerously mistaken. However, on the one idea of expanding NATO, there is some merit in the concept. The argument that NATO should be confined to the North Atlantic would, if applied to the United States of America, exclude Hawaii from statehood.

    The issues related to the expansion of NATO are complicated and cut both ways, but the geographical argument is silly.

    Comment by Chepe Noyon — September 20, 2007 @ 1:03 pm
  9. Of course, you could always change the name if that were the only problem with the proposal, but let’s not spoil a good hook over details.

    The real question is the NATO mission. It doesn’t have one. And it makes more sense to do away with an organization that lacks a mission than to try to think up a new mission for it that isn’t even particularly relevant to most of its members.

    The real problem with Giuliani’s proposal is the same as the problem with his childish essay for FOREIGN AFFAIRS magazine. The whole thesis rests on a mythical War on Terror.

    Unquestionably, there are a very great number of terrorist groups in the world today. Some of them are even receiving support from the U.S. govt. But to suggest that these disparate groups constitute some conspiratorial threat to the United States is absurd. After all, some of these terrorist groups are even fighting each other.

    You cannot defeat terror. You can only defeat terrorist groups. And when you defeat one, there’s nothing to stop another one from emerging. You can’t win a war on terror any more than you can win a war on crime.

    Crime happens. And there will always be someone who lapses into criminal behavior. Likewise there will always be the Timothy McVeighs and the Ted Kuzincskis kicking around, in this country or some other, ready to launch a “terrorist attack” on the United States.

    Clearly, the Giuliani rhetoric is all about enhancing the power of the state both domestically and abroad. Giuliani is clearly a sell-out to the military-industrial complex, the Zionist lobby, and the statist ideology of their neo-con lackeys.

    Comment by Rob — September 20, 2007 @ 4:48 pm
  10. Something interesting to consider along these lines is that Australia recently gained the same status as Britain when it comes to military relations and hardware, one step beyond major non-NATO ally.

    Comment by Mike — September 20, 2007 @ 11:04 pm
  11. Giuliani (and Debarshi’s comment) are right on target (Read Huntington’s Clash of Civilizations). The populations in China and Islamic countries are youthful and growing in power. The West (including America) have aging populations and are slowly becoming less powerful internationally and particularly in Asia. We need to strengthen our alliances. India is a key counterbalance to China’s dominance of the region (much more so than Japan). Most Indians speak English, they have some similarities in their legal system left over by the Brits, and their ties to Russia are weakening as the Russian power wains with its aging and quickly shrinking population. So we should strengthen our alliances with India and Australia. Ultimately we will be forced to do it to counterbalance China, so Giuliani is just thinking ahead.

    Comment by Scott B. — September 21, 2007 @ 11:23 am
  12. I don’t think its a good idea to tie every NATO country to the defense of India if there’s another Pakistan/India or another China/India war. Also have you thought about how Pakistan and Russia are going to react to India being invited to join NATO?
    Many NATO members will object to Israel joining. Most western European countries try to keep good relations with the Arab world and would be unwilling to be tied to the defense of Israel. Do we really want to alienate any friends we might have left in that part of the world?
    I suspect that Mayor Rudy was more interested in gaining Jewish support than he was in thinking ahead or making foreign policy sense.

    Comment by Bob — September 21, 2007 @ 11:58 am
  13. Geography is not the only thing he is failing.

    http://pubcrawler.blogspot.com/2007/09/quote-of-day_21.html
    Shameless promotion of my own blog. Sorry.

    Comment by tkc — September 21, 2007 @ 3:54 pm

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