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	<title>Comments on: Is Ron Paul Howard Dean Redux, Or Ross Perot Reborn ?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: Is Ron Paul Howard Dean Redux, Or Ross Perot Reborn ? &#124; Political news - democrats republicans socialists greens liberals conservatives</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-40705</link>
		<dc:creator>Is Ron Paul Howard Dean Redux, Or Ross Perot Reborn ? &#124; Political news - democrats republicans socialists greens liberals conservatives</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 03:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-40705</guid>
		<description>[...] Original post by Doug Mataconis [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Original post by Doug Mataconis [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Mataconis</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39674</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Mataconis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Josh,

&lt;blockquote&gt;he said he wouldn’t endorse the nominee “unless they’re willing to end the war and bring our troops home. And not unless they’re willing to look at the excess spending.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Same thing, really, don&#039;t you agree ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josh,</p>
<blockquote><p>he said he wouldn’t endorse the nominee “unless they’re willing to end the war and bring our troops home. And not unless they’re willing to look at the excess spending.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Same thing, really, don&#8217;t you agree ?</p>
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		<title>By: Josh Purinton</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39673</link>
		<dc:creator>Josh Purinton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39673</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;[Paul] refused to say that he would endorse the nominee of the Republican Party in 2008 if it was someone other than himself.&lt;/i&gt;

Paul said nothing of the sort. Actually, he said he wouldn&#039;t endorse the nominee &quot;unless they&#039;re willing to end the war and bring our troops home. And not unless they&#039;re willing to look at the excess spending.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>[Paul] refused to say that he would endorse the nominee of the Republican Party in 2008 if it was someone other than himself.</i></p>
<p>Paul said nothing of the sort. Actually, he said he wouldn&#8217;t endorse the nominee &#8220;unless they&#8217;re willing to end the war and bring our troops home. And not unless they&#8217;re willing to look at the excess spending.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: logicprobe</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39624</link>
		<dc:creator>logicprobe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 16:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39624</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul himself would agree that the campaign is not about him personally; it&#039;s about the message of freedom, individual liberty, and hope for America. Ron Paul is simply the catalyst that re-invigorated a quiescent, dormant movement; we&#039;re not going away regardless of who the eventual Rebublican nominee is. The so-called mainstream GOP needs to wake up and recognize this new reality, or risk the Republican Party itself bifurcating. Does nobody remember the Whigs and the origin of the GOP? It can happen again, folks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul himself would agree that the campaign is not about him personally; it&#8217;s about the message of freedom, individual liberty, and hope for America. Ron Paul is simply the catalyst that re-invigorated a quiescent, dormant movement; we&#8217;re not going away regardless of who the eventual Rebublican nominee is. The so-called mainstream GOP needs to wake up and recognize this new reality, or risk the Republican Party itself bifurcating. Does nobody remember the Whigs and the origin of the GOP? It can happen again, folks.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken H</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39480</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:36:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39480</guid>
		<description>Doug,

Ron Paul has already stated that he is not interested in a minor party or indepedent bid for the presidency in 2008.  He reiterated that stance on Tucker Carlson&#039;s show on MSNBC today.

The idea of Ron Paul running in the 2008 general election as a minor party or independent candidate has no basis in reality.  Just take the man at his word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,</p>
<p>Ron Paul has already stated that he is not interested in a minor party or indepedent bid for the presidency in 2008.  He reiterated that stance on Tucker Carlson&#8217;s show on MSNBC today.</p>
<p>The idea of Ron Paul running in the 2008 general election as a minor party or independent candidate has no basis in reality.  Just take the man at his word.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39467</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:58:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39467</guid>
		<description>Working within the two-party system has its advantages.  A movement with 5% support in the general population could nominate a candidate in the primaries, where turnout is around 20% -- 10% in each party.  This assumes 100% turnout for the movement candidate.  If Ron Paul achieves this, he could win without ever topping 10% in the polls.

A third party with 5% support has no chance.  Since most members realize that, they don&#039;t even hit 5% in the general election.

However, if Giuliani and Clinton are the nominees, I think Ron Paul has a moral imperative to run, to try to save the country.  Given his overwhelming advantage in plain-spokenness, integrity, consistency, and character, he might have a chance, even if he is viewed as radical.

But how far outside the mainstream is Ron Paul, really?  He&#039;s the only candidate who is against the war and for smaller government and against illegal immigration -- arguably the three biggest issues in the election, and he&#039;s got the market cornered where they overlap!

Ron Paul also has a viral marketing, grassroots campaign that has a lot more potential to move up.  The real question is whether it can hit critical mass by February 5th, but I think another nine months after that and it could be in the 25-35% range.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Working within the two-party system has its advantages.  A movement with 5% support in the general population could nominate a candidate in the primaries, where turnout is around 20% &#8212; 10% in each party.  This assumes 100% turnout for the movement candidate.  If Ron Paul achieves this, he could win without ever topping 10% in the polls.</p>
<p>A third party with 5% support has no chance.  Since most members realize that, they don&#8217;t even hit 5% in the general election.</p>
<p>However, if Giuliani and Clinton are the nominees, I think Ron Paul has a moral imperative to run, to try to save the country.  Given his overwhelming advantage in plain-spokenness, integrity, consistency, and character, he might have a chance, even if he is viewed as radical.</p>
<p>But how far outside the mainstream is Ron Paul, really?  He&#8217;s the only candidate who is against the war and for smaller government and against illegal immigration &#8212; arguably the three biggest issues in the election, and he&#8217;s got the market cornered where they overlap!</p>
<p>Ron Paul also has a viral marketing, grassroots campaign that has a lot more potential to move up.  The real question is whether it can hit critical mass by February 5th, but I think another nine months after that and it could be in the 25-35% range.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39465</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 00:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39465</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul will win the GOP nomination and then the Eastern est. GOP will run a 3rd party around him to ensure there girl Billary get&#039;s elected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul will win the GOP nomination and then the Eastern est. GOP will run a 3rd party around him to ensure there girl Billary get&#8217;s elected.</p>
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		<title>By: oilnwater</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39455</link>
		<dc:creator>oilnwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:52:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39455</guid>
		<description>my RP support notwithstanding, i firmly believe that the GOP is fully prepared to lose this POTUS cycle... badly.  they have no intention of nominating Paul whatsoever, no...matter...what.

and by that i mean the GOP will do any back door agreement or whatever if they really feel Paul might actually be caucused in.

frankly, i don&#039;t even see Paul being caucused in.  but i couldn&#039;t care less.  i still canvass, i&#039;ve still donated, and i don&#039;t give a damn b/c i&#039;m not stopping until it&#039;s over.

the GOP leadership is probably pragmatic in knowing that they will be absolutely slaughtered this cycle, possibly for the next POTUS too. however the legislative and state governership bodies will be definitely be influenced by the Paul campaign (i.e. Paul-esqe platforms)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>my RP support notwithstanding, i firmly believe that the GOP is fully prepared to lose this POTUS cycle&#8230; badly.  they have no intention of nominating Paul whatsoever, no&#8230;matter&#8230;what.</p>
<p>and by that i mean the GOP will do any back door agreement or whatever if they really feel Paul might actually be caucused in.</p>
<p>frankly, i don&#8217;t even see Paul being caucused in.  but i couldn&#8217;t care less.  i still canvass, i&#8217;ve still donated, and i don&#8217;t give a damn b/c i&#8217;m not stopping until it&#8217;s over.</p>
<p>the GOP leadership is probably pragmatic in knowing that they will be absolutely slaughtered this cycle, possibly for the next POTUS too. however the legislative and state governership bodies will be definitely be influenced by the Paul campaign (i.e. Paul-esqe platforms)</p>
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		<title>By: Grant</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39453</link>
		<dc:creator>Grant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:39:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39453</guid>
		<description>Maybe there is more at stake here than seating assignments in Washington for the next 4 years.  

Maybe this is about a fledgling ideology striking a chord in a public bitterly disaffected with the representation provided by the two major parties.  

Ron Paul&#039;s campaign is an investment in a different way of thinking about the relationship between government and governed.  Keeping the message in front of the American people for as long as possible may be the best this campaign can achieve.  

Change will not come overnight for those who agree with Ron Paul; win or lose.  But this is a vision worth waiting for, and those who see little difference between mainstream Republicans and Democrats can afford to be patient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there is more at stake here than seating assignments in Washington for the next 4 years.  </p>
<p>Maybe this is about a fledgling ideology striking a chord in a public bitterly disaffected with the representation provided by the two major parties.  </p>
<p>Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign is an investment in a different way of thinking about the relationship between government and governed.  Keeping the message in front of the American people for as long as possible may be the best this campaign can achieve.  </p>
<p>Change will not come overnight for those who agree with Ron Paul; win or lose.  But this is a vision worth waiting for, and those who see little difference between mainstream Republicans and Democrats can afford to be patient.</p>
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		<title>By: libertyman</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39450</link>
		<dc:creator>libertyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39450</guid>
		<description>If the GOP fails to realize its mistakes and try and atone for them by nominating Ron Paul for POTUS then they do not deserve Ron Paul or his huge and growing army of grass roots support. 

There is no other Presidential candidate that has his grass roots on the ground volunteers in the GOP. Would the GOP be ignorant enough or arrogant enough to think that they can not use Ron Paul&#039;s army of nearly 53,000 (as of today) on the ground volunteers in their fight for the Presidency in 2008?  

The closest thing the Dems have is Barack Obama with just slightly over 6000 volunteers. The rest of the GOP combined has only a fraction of that kind of support. 

I guess the idea is that money can and does buy the Presidency and they could give a damn how the people feel and the 2 parties will only chose the one among the candidates who is the most sold out to the hilt for their party leadership.

I for one am tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils so I will vote for Ron Paul instead. This prairie fire is not going out no matter how many buckets of water you try and throw on it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the GOP fails to realize its mistakes and try and atone for them by nominating Ron Paul for POTUS then they do not deserve Ron Paul or his huge and growing army of grass roots support. </p>
<p>There is no other Presidential candidate that has his grass roots on the ground volunteers in the GOP. Would the GOP be ignorant enough or arrogant enough to think that they can not use Ron Paul&#8217;s army of nearly 53,000 (as of today) on the ground volunteers in their fight for the Presidency in 2008?  </p>
<p>The closest thing the Dems have is Barack Obama with just slightly over 6000 volunteers. The rest of the GOP combined has only a fraction of that kind of support. </p>
<p>I guess the idea is that money can and does buy the Presidency and they could give a damn how the people feel and the 2 parties will only chose the one among the candidates who is the most sold out to the hilt for their party leadership.</p>
<p>I for one am tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils so I will vote for Ron Paul instead. This prairie fire is not going out no matter how many buckets of water you try and throw on it.</p>
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		<title>By: Darel99</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39449</link>
		<dc:creator>Darel99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 21:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39449</guid>
		<description>A comparison between Howard Dean or Ross Perot pails in comparisons to Ron Paul&#039;s support at rallies.  Ron&#039;s support is pulling larger crowds then any campaign.  Ron Paul had a function in NH and so did Obama and Ron Paul had more at his function then Obama.  Ron Paul&#039;s campaign draws greater comparisons to the excitement of Martin Luther King then Dean or Perot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A comparison between Howard Dean or Ross Perot pails in comparisons to Ron Paul&#8217;s support at rallies.  Ron&#8217;s support is pulling larger crowds then any campaign.  Ron Paul had a function in NH and so did Obama and Ron Paul had more at his function then Obama.  Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign draws greater comparisons to the excitement of Martin Luther King then Dean or Perot.</p>
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		<title>By: brody</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39447</link>
		<dc:creator>brody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39447</guid>
		<description>I think the real question is, are Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney going to run as third party candidates?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the real question is, are Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney going to run as third party candidates?</p>
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		<title>By: Willis Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39444</link>
		<dc:creator>Willis Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:50:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39444</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul has a good chance of winning the nomination.

Here in the South. He is getting huge.

As dumb as Fred looked yesterday, all of those Fred heads will be jumping ship soon.

And people in the South are getting tired of sending our sons out to foreign lands to die for some New York socialists, in which you support.

Wall Street is murdering us and selling out the nation. But, you, the pundits don&#039;t have any remorse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul has a good chance of winning the nomination.</p>
<p>Here in the South. He is getting huge.</p>
<p>As dumb as Fred looked yesterday, all of those Fred heads will be jumping ship soon.</p>
<p>And people in the South are getting tired of sending our sons out to foreign lands to die for some New York socialists, in which you support.</p>
<p>Wall Street is murdering us and selling out the nation. But, you, the pundits don&#8217;t have any remorse.</p>
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		<title>By: oilnwater</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39443</link>
		<dc:creator>oilnwater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:49:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39443</guid>
		<description>eric.... werd up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eric&#8230;. werd up.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Sundwall</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39441</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Sundwall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Oct 2007 19:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/is-ron-paul-howard-dean-redux-or-ross-perot-reborn/#comment-39441</guid>
		<description>&#039;but in the end all a third party candidacy can do is be a spoiler in the General Election.&#039; 

Really ? It can&#039;t be the model of hope or an outlet of frustration ? It can&#039;t be a loud voice of protest that drives a particular issue or groups of issues ?

It can&#039;t be something earned and fought for by its erstwhile participants and adherents ? It can&#039;t be a ballast to a status quo of constant war or ever increasing welfare state ? 

Maybe we can&#039;t all be &#039;winners&#039; in the popular sense of Ameri-Arcana, but I&#039;d rather stand out in the rain with fists clenched and raised then at home on the couch with a bag of chips and a light beer listening to Chris Matthews blather about the Mayor of America or the new First Spouse.  

There&#039;s a real good reason half the population doesn&#039;t even bother . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;but in the end all a third party candidacy can do is be a spoiler in the General Election.&#8217; </p>
<p>Really ? It can&#8217;t be the model of hope or an outlet of frustration ? It can&#8217;t be a loud voice of protest that drives a particular issue or groups of issues ?</p>
<p>It can&#8217;t be something earned and fought for by its erstwhile participants and adherents ? It can&#8217;t be a ballast to a status quo of constant war or ever increasing welfare state ? </p>
<p>Maybe we can&#8217;t all be &#8216;winners&#8217; in the popular sense of Ameri-Arcana, but I&#8217;d rather stand out in the rain with fists clenched and raised then at home on the couch with a bag of chips and a light beer listening to Chris Matthews blather about the Mayor of America or the new First Spouse.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a real good reason half the population doesn&#8217;t even bother . . .</p>
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