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	<title>Comments on: Ron Paul At Yesterday&#8217;s Presidential Debate &amp; Debate Round-Up</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: John Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39817</link>
		<dc:creator>John Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Oct 2007 16:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39817</guid>
		<description>Pretending that &quot;national polls&quot; are &quot;scientific&quot; and that Ron Paul&#039;s growing popularity may be dismissed is just the right thing for his silly opponents to do.   That way they will be caught unaware when it is too late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretending that &#8220;national polls&#8221; are &#8220;scientific&#8221; and that Ron Paul&#8217;s growing popularity may be dismissed is just the right thing for his silly opponents to do.   That way they will be caught unaware when it is too late.</p>
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		<title>By: UCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39695</link>
		<dc:creator>UCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39695</guid>
		<description>Rob,

Exactly...you nailed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rob,</p>
<p>Exactly&#8230;you nailed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39694</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Oct 2007 00:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39694</guid>
		<description>The question is whether Ron Paul&#039;s campaign is about educating the public or winning an election. I hate to say it, but the two goals are not particularly compatible. Despite all the claims about how people are rallying to Ron Paul, the fact is that he barely exceeds the margin of error in most national polls. And the Iowa Straw Poll clearly showed that the professional pollsters came a lot closer in their predictions of success in Iowa than those who depended upon anecdotal evidence of Paul&#039;s strength.

If Paul wants to educate the public, then he will have accomplished a great deal if he just gets his  poll numbers up to 8 or 9%. Because he will then have converted a significant percentage of the population to what, for them, is an entirely new philosophy, and that is a difficult thing to do.

But to try to convert 50% of the electorate to such a philosophy is an enormous task. If you&#039;re going to insist, for example, on strict constitutionalism you have to educate the public on what the constitution says. Even Hillary and Obama with their huge war chests, do not try to do it.

So if you get bogged down in questions about why you want to abolish the CIA or the Dept of Education, you never get to discuss the things you would do that you can actually accomplish and that would make a difference. Let&#039;s face it. The President cannot abolish the CIA or the Dept of Education, or the Federal Reserve or the IRS. Congress has to do those things and it isn&#039;t very likely that they will even if RP is elected President.

So what RP needs to do is concentrate on a few main issues, explain those issues, and show why the country will benefit from them. I&#039;m not talking about just the debates. Admittedly, he usually only gets asked questions about the War in  these debates. But he&#039;s giving speeches all over the country, and he will probably soon begin to start advertising, and at that point he needs to communicate his PRIORITIES. He can&#039;t do all the things he advocates once he&#039;s in the White House so he needs to communicate what he will DO, not what he THINKS. Otherwise, let&#039;s accept that this is an educational campaign, RP is going nowhere in the election and any electoral fruits of this effort will have to wait for the future as RP supporters continue to spread the message.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The question is whether Ron Paul&#8217;s campaign is about educating the public or winning an election. I hate to say it, but the two goals are not particularly compatible. Despite all the claims about how people are rallying to Ron Paul, the fact is that he barely exceeds the margin of error in most national polls. And the Iowa Straw Poll clearly showed that the professional pollsters came a lot closer in their predictions of success in Iowa than those who depended upon anecdotal evidence of Paul&#8217;s strength.</p>
<p>If Paul wants to educate the public, then he will have accomplished a great deal if he just gets his  poll numbers up to 8 or 9%. Because he will then have converted a significant percentage of the population to what, for them, is an entirely new philosophy, and that is a difficult thing to do.</p>
<p>But to try to convert 50% of the electorate to such a philosophy is an enormous task. If you&#8217;re going to insist, for example, on strict constitutionalism you have to educate the public on what the constitution says. Even Hillary and Obama with their huge war chests, do not try to do it.</p>
<p>So if you get bogged down in questions about why you want to abolish the CIA or the Dept of Education, you never get to discuss the things you would do that you can actually accomplish and that would make a difference. Let&#8217;s face it. The President cannot abolish the CIA or the Dept of Education, or the Federal Reserve or the IRS. Congress has to do those things and it isn&#8217;t very likely that they will even if RP is elected President.</p>
<p>So what RP needs to do is concentrate on a few main issues, explain those issues, and show why the country will benefit from them. I&#8217;m not talking about just the debates. Admittedly, he usually only gets asked questions about the War in  these debates. But he&#8217;s giving speeches all over the country, and he will probably soon begin to start advertising, and at that point he needs to communicate his PRIORITIES. He can&#8217;t do all the things he advocates once he&#8217;s in the White House so he needs to communicate what he will DO, not what he THINKS. Otherwise, let&#8217;s accept that this is an educational campaign, RP is going nowhere in the election and any electoral fruits of this effort will have to wait for the future as RP supporters continue to spread the message.</p>
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		<title>By: lol</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39612</link>
		<dc:creator>lol</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 11:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39612</guid>
		<description>&quot;&quot;I don’t get the impression that he really connected with the audience. The average American doesn’t care about the Gold Standard, and they’re not going to. They also aren’t going to read Ludwig von Mises anytime soon. Where was the talk about reducing taxes ?&quot;&quot;

Wow! That just sum up to me that you really shouldn&#039;t allow to give your opinion. So you only want people to tell you what you want to hear? Bush is a great president then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8221;I don’t get the impression that he really connected with the audience. The average American doesn’t care about the Gold Standard, and they’re not going to. They also aren’t going to read Ludwig von Mises anytime soon. Where was the talk about reducing taxes ?&#8221;"</p>
<p>Wow! That just sum up to me that you really shouldn&#8217;t allow to give your opinion. So you only want people to tell you what you want to hear? Bush is a great president then.</p>
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		<title>By: Virtual Revolution</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39603</link>
		<dc:creator>Virtual Revolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 04:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39603</guid>
		<description>Doug Mataconis,

I&#039;m sorry.  I&#039;ve been to your site a few times (it&#039;s quite popular on digg, so kudos) but i have to finally say something.  I&#039;ve watched as you have spoken negatively about Ron Paul a few times now and i have to say a few things (respectfully of course):

1. The key to successful propaganda is to make sure the conversation stays within certain boundaries, in otherwords, it&#039;s ok to argue over the little details, but not the direction.  The presidential elections and acts of congress, in fact, the very DESIGN of congress is to make sure all energies are directed at the details, so as to circumvent any effort to change the direction.  Remember, when you vote, you give your power away to elected officials who get lots of money from lobbyists to benefit corporate elites, and the remainder of the issues you have are completely silenced by the other members of congress who are voted down by the &#039;purchased&#039; officials.  This country is about to be amalgamated with mexico and canada.  Amero&#039;s are already minted, and the other 3 unions are coming to a close so as to amalgamate the four global unions under one government.  This is fact, it is stated by the world leaders of each union and openly admitted to.  These are facts.  It&#039;s written in hard copy in the form of signing statements, legislation, and executive orders.
The last true democratic society is being dismantled through erosion of sovreignty, and bankruptcy of the poor/middleclass.

2. Forget Ron Paul for a second.  Forget that he is bringing up the issues he&#039;s bringing up at all.  Let the issues stand on their own for a moment.  This country is broke because the entire budget has gone to fund a war that is being fought for oil, under false pretenses, and a at the discretion of a president that felt he didn&#039;t need congressional approval.  Congressional approval is SO important for the understated fact that by doing so constitutes that the american people have told their elected leaders to speak for them when making that decision to go in the first place.  But when a president makes that decision despite the voice of congress, well, that&#039;s standard issue dictatorship right there.  Then think about how congress is bought lock, stock, and barrel, which constituted it&#039;s willingness to go to war.  Then think about our health-care system and why it isn&#039;t working, and how the education system is falling apart, and how the wealth is being transferred from the poor/middle-class to the rich.  Then think about the real ID card, and the abolishment of Habeus Corpus, and the patriot act, and the military commissions act, and the legalization of wiretapping, torture, and executive orders signed by this president that make dissent against HIS war a crime.  Then think about how once the NAU becomes a reality how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of mexicans will flood the US and Canada soaking up the welfare and education dollars ten-fold over what they&#039;re taking out of it now.  Then think about how the same people who are telling us that we need to fight for our freedom are also saying that social security will be there when you retire even though they&#039;ve borrowed $249 billion from it last year, only to pay it back with....?  They can&#039;t, and won&#039;t be able to because they can&#039;t afford to pay back the $2.7 trillion dollars they owe china above and beyond the billions they owe the current deficit.  Then think about the private interests that are benefitting from all this war.  Then think about the military industrial complex that was warned about in Eisenhower&#039;s farewell speech, and how it has taken a hold of this country.  Then think about how a few private bankers created a monetary system that creats inflation by repudiation of debt, which is the OTHER system for transfer of wealth from the poor/middleclass to the rich.  Then think about how the same people who are trying to form the NAU and other unions are the same people who control the media.  

Then finally, realize that there&#039;s a man, for the first time in well over a hundred years in congress, that is running for president, that is saying all these things that have been oppressed for the same amount of time.

The fact that you Doug, are still reprimanding Ron Paul for what he is saying, and more importantly his thorough, responsible, and moral understanding of these issues, backed by evidence ANYONE with brains could find and put together with what is available, tells me that you are not educated enough in the matters to truly understand and see the greater picture.  If you were to take each issue he has brought forth, researched it in the detail with which he has already done so, this &quot;Liberty Papers&quot; site would maybe start living up to it&#039;s name.  History didn&#039;t start sept 11th, 2001.  It started with the instigation of a national bank, a military industrial complex, and a bunch of rich bastards that want to create a soviet-style, police-state dictatorship, only on a global scale.  If you can&#039;t see the blantant obviousness that is right there in front of your eyes, if you can put all that together, then you simply need to stop blogging until you&#039;re informed enough.  

So far, all i see, is a bunch of propaganda....or worse......you&#039;re just one of the sheep arguing over the details of the insignificant...and remaining completely oblivious to the direction. 

Thank god someone like Ron Paul is trying to come to power....so he can dismantle it.

One last thing.  Before you decide to pick apart my arguement, just stop and realize that by not informing yourself better, and letting what is about to happen to occur......think about your children, and what you&#039;re doing to their future by knocking the ONE AND ONLY person who is trying to save the country, instead of continue to propagate it&#039;s destruction.  These things ARE happening, and YOU sir....are helping them.  Whether you know it or not.  I truly hope you open your mind and your eyes, and then turn this site into something that will help, not hinder.  We need to come together now more than ever, we can&#039;t be bogged down in the details any longer.  It&#039;s time to attack the direction.

The most concerned citizen...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug Mataconis,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry.  I&#8217;ve been to your site a few times (it&#8217;s quite popular on digg, so kudos) but i have to finally say something.  I&#8217;ve watched as you have spoken negatively about Ron Paul a few times now and i have to say a few things (respectfully of course):</p>
<p>1. The key to successful propaganda is to make sure the conversation stays within certain boundaries, in otherwords, it&#8217;s ok to argue over the little details, but not the direction.  The presidential elections and acts of congress, in fact, the very DESIGN of congress is to make sure all energies are directed at the details, so as to circumvent any effort to change the direction.  Remember, when you vote, you give your power away to elected officials who get lots of money from lobbyists to benefit corporate elites, and the remainder of the issues you have are completely silenced by the other members of congress who are voted down by the &#8216;purchased&#8217; officials.  This country is about to be amalgamated with mexico and canada.  Amero&#8217;s are already minted, and the other 3 unions are coming to a close so as to amalgamate the four global unions under one government.  This is fact, it is stated by the world leaders of each union and openly admitted to.  These are facts.  It&#8217;s written in hard copy in the form of signing statements, legislation, and executive orders.<br />
The last true democratic society is being dismantled through erosion of sovreignty, and bankruptcy of the poor/middleclass.</p>
<p>2. Forget Ron Paul for a second.  Forget that he is bringing up the issues he&#8217;s bringing up at all.  Let the issues stand on their own for a moment.  This country is broke because the entire budget has gone to fund a war that is being fought for oil, under false pretenses, and a at the discretion of a president that felt he didn&#8217;t need congressional approval.  Congressional approval is SO important for the understated fact that by doing so constitutes that the american people have told their elected leaders to speak for them when making that decision to go in the first place.  But when a president makes that decision despite the voice of congress, well, that&#8217;s standard issue dictatorship right there.  Then think about how congress is bought lock, stock, and barrel, which constituted it&#8217;s willingness to go to war.  Then think about our health-care system and why it isn&#8217;t working, and how the education system is falling apart, and how the wealth is being transferred from the poor/middle-class to the rich.  Then think about the real ID card, and the abolishment of Habeus Corpus, and the patriot act, and the military commissions act, and the legalization of wiretapping, torture, and executive orders signed by this president that make dissent against HIS war a crime.  Then think about how once the NAU becomes a reality how MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of mexicans will flood the US and Canada soaking up the welfare and education dollars ten-fold over what they&#8217;re taking out of it now.  Then think about how the same people who are telling us that we need to fight for our freedom are also saying that social security will be there when you retire even though they&#8217;ve borrowed $249 billion from it last year, only to pay it back with&#8230;.?  They can&#8217;t, and won&#8217;t be able to because they can&#8217;t afford to pay back the $2.7 trillion dollars they owe china above and beyond the billions they owe the current deficit.  Then think about the private interests that are benefitting from all this war.  Then think about the military industrial complex that was warned about in Eisenhower&#8217;s farewell speech, and how it has taken a hold of this country.  Then think about how a few private bankers created a monetary system that creats inflation by repudiation of debt, which is the OTHER system for transfer of wealth from the poor/middleclass to the rich.  Then think about how the same people who are trying to form the NAU and other unions are the same people who control the media.  </p>
<p>Then finally, realize that there&#8217;s a man, for the first time in well over a hundred years in congress, that is running for president, that is saying all these things that have been oppressed for the same amount of time.</p>
<p>The fact that you Doug, are still reprimanding Ron Paul for what he is saying, and more importantly his thorough, responsible, and moral understanding of these issues, backed by evidence ANYONE with brains could find and put together with what is available, tells me that you are not educated enough in the matters to truly understand and see the greater picture.  If you were to take each issue he has brought forth, researched it in the detail with which he has already done so, this &#8220;Liberty Papers&#8221; site would maybe start living up to it&#8217;s name.  History didn&#8217;t start sept 11th, 2001.  It started with the instigation of a national bank, a military industrial complex, and a bunch of rich bastards that want to create a soviet-style, police-state dictatorship, only on a global scale.  If you can&#8217;t see the blantant obviousness that is right there in front of your eyes, if you can put all that together, then you simply need to stop blogging until you&#8217;re informed enough.  </p>
<p>So far, all i see, is a bunch of propaganda&#8230;.or worse&#8230;&#8230;you&#8217;re just one of the sheep arguing over the details of the insignificant&#8230;and remaining completely oblivious to the direction. </p>
<p>Thank god someone like Ron Paul is trying to come to power&#8230;.so he can dismantle it.</p>
<p>One last thing.  Before you decide to pick apart my arguement, just stop and realize that by not informing yourself better, and letting what is about to happen to occur&#8230;&#8230;think about your children, and what you&#8217;re doing to their future by knocking the ONE AND ONLY person who is trying to save the country, instead of continue to propagate it&#8217;s destruction.  These things ARE happening, and YOU sir&#8230;.are helping them.  Whether you know it or not.  I truly hope you open your mind and your eyes, and then turn this site into something that will help, not hinder.  We need to come together now more than ever, we can&#8217;t be bogged down in the details any longer.  It&#8217;s time to attack the direction.</p>
<p>The most concerned citizen&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39588</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Oct 2007 00:58:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39588</guid>
		<description>Giuliani is an Idiot! He hasn&#039;t a clue; please would someone sendhim a dictionary.

Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Giuliani is an Idiot! He hasn&#8217;t a clue; please would someone sendhim a dictionary.</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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		<title>By: RonPaul Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39572</link>
		<dc:creator>RonPaul Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39572</guid>
		<description>Give me Liberty or give me Death!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give me Liberty or give me Death!</p>
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		<title>By: RonPaul Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39571</link>
		<dc:creator>RonPaul Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39571</guid>
		<description>Any person who votes that votes for anyone other than Ron Paul is a fool.......period! In your life you have never come across a politician as honest as he is or even as smart as he is.......yeah, he doesn&#039;t have the BS lines like the rest but the man means what he says and says what he means.......in any ONE of you think another person running will do better than Ron Paul, I think you need to take a very honest look at the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any person who votes that votes for anyone other than Ron Paul is a fool&#8230;&#8230;.period! In your life you have never come across a politician as honest as he is or even as smart as he is&#8230;&#8230;.yeah, he doesn&#8217;t have the BS lines like the rest but the man means what he says and says what he means&#8230;&#8230;.in any ONE of you think another person running will do better than Ron Paul, I think you need to take a very honest look at the world.</p>
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		<title>By: RonPaul Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39570</link>
		<dc:creator>RonPaul Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 20:12:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39570</guid>
		<description>Ron Paul simply kicked their butts, he is being forceful now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ron Paul simply kicked their butts, he is being forceful now!</p>
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		<title>By: ManFaded</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39538</link>
		<dc:creator>ManFaded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 16:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39538</guid>
		<description>There were more people at the Ron Paul rally in Ann Arbor after the debate then there were at the actual debate. Iraq was but one of many issues championed by Dr. Paul. Many have said it was his best speech ever.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There were more people at the Ron Paul rally in Ann Arbor after the debate then there were at the actual debate. Iraq was but one of many issues championed by Dr. Paul. Many have said it was his best speech ever.</p>
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		<title>By: TerryP</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39526</link>
		<dc:creator>TerryP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 15:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39526</guid>
		<description>While Ron Paul&#039;s immigration policy does not fall into line with a number of libertarians it does seem to meet approval with many independents and conservatives.  It is a possible issue that he can pick up other votes with if he pushes it more.

While he is right and extremely knowledgeable about the issue of the gold standard/fed reserve/abolish the IRS it is a fairly hard thing to explain at a debate.  The problem is the voters just aren&#039;t real knowledgeable about these very complex issues.  It is not something on the forefront of their minds and is not something that will likely change their vote.  


Healthcare is an issue that is pretty prominent right now.  The problem is his views of likely getting the government out of the picture probably isn&#039;t going to win him many new votes among the undecided unless he advocates for more incremental change to that end, which may be hard for him to do.  I agree that Bush&#039;s health care proposal may have been his best proposal of his entire presidency.  The problem for Paul is that he is advocating getting rid of the IRS not using the current tax system for changes in health care.  He could say, however, that though his preference is to get rid of the income tax, in the transition we should put everyone on equal footing with regards to taxes and health care and then outline his plan either similar to Bush&#039;s or some other plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While Ron Paul&#8217;s immigration policy does not fall into line with a number of libertarians it does seem to meet approval with many independents and conservatives.  It is a possible issue that he can pick up other votes with if he pushes it more.</p>
<p>While he is right and extremely knowledgeable about the issue of the gold standard/fed reserve/abolish the IRS it is a fairly hard thing to explain at a debate.  The problem is the voters just aren&#8217;t real knowledgeable about these very complex issues.  It is not something on the forefront of their minds and is not something that will likely change their vote.  </p>
<p>Healthcare is an issue that is pretty prominent right now.  The problem is his views of likely getting the government out of the picture probably isn&#8217;t going to win him many new votes among the undecided unless he advocates for more incremental change to that end, which may be hard for him to do.  I agree that Bush&#8217;s health care proposal may have been his best proposal of his entire presidency.  The problem for Paul is that he is advocating getting rid of the IRS not using the current tax system for changes in health care.  He could say, however, that though his preference is to get rid of the income tax, in the transition we should put everyone on equal footing with regards to taxes and health care and then outline his plan either similar to Bush&#8217;s or some other plan.</p>
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		<title>By: John Howard</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39498</link>
		<dc:creator>John Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 13:50:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39498</guid>
		<description>The comment is repeated several times above that no one cares about the gold standard issue.  Why then, at every speech Ron Paul gives, is there loud and enthusiastic cheering when he discusses eliminating the Federal Reserve and returning to sound money.  Counterfeiting is not so hard to understand nor is it hard to understand that it cheats the poor for the sake of bankers and politicians.  Ron Paul HAS &quot;honed&quot; his message and he is wiser than the above commenters about how to campaign.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The comment is repeated several times above that no one cares about the gold standard issue.  Why then, at every speech Ron Paul gives, is there loud and enthusiastic cheering when he discusses eliminating the Federal Reserve and returning to sound money.  Counterfeiting is not so hard to understand nor is it hard to understand that it cheats the poor for the sake of bankers and politicians.  Ron Paul HAS &#8220;honed&#8221; his message and he is wiser than the above commenters about how to campaign.</p>
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		<title>By: a Patriot</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39493</link>
		<dc:creator>a Patriot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 07:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39493</guid>
		<description>I agree with much above but after Fred said there was no recession and then Ron says the money is all going to Wall St - that should have struck a cord with many in MI</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with much above but after Fred said there was no recession and then Ron says the money is all going to Wall St &#8211; that should have struck a cord with many in MI</p>
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		<title>By: xo</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39491</link>
		<dc:creator>xo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 06:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39491</guid>
		<description>I thought Ron did great.  They did not give him any time to talk about anything else even though he has the 3rd most money than anyone on the stage.  His main issue is the war.  He needs to bring it up as much as possible.  Soon everyone will realize that he is the ONLY one that will bring the Troops home. Even the DEMS are going to continue with the WAR.  It is going to be hard for a REP to give you a PLAN like the DEMs.  Remember, REP are responsible and believe in limited Government, that means they are going to cut a lot of programs.  You don&#039;t want to start Pissing people off by telling them Once you are in office, they&#039;re FIRED.  He said often that he has to look at the programs because some he will not be able to cut altogether because too many people are dependent on them.  THE DEMS can give you all the PLANS in the world because they are for BIG GOVERNMENT-HIGHER TAXES.  That translate to YOU ARE SCREWED.  Since they would be increasing Governments POWER, they can be as specific as they want to be; however, that&#039;s not to say that there plan would work.  You can&#039;t give UNiversal Healthcare with an OPEN border.  IT&#039;s impossible.  You&#039;ll never control how many people you have; therefore, the amount you will have to spend to cover everyone will bankrupt you before the WAR will.  Besides, many of use cant just go the the doctor whenever want.  Some appointments may take up to a week.  Imagine how long it will be if everyone is calling to make an appointment.  Now you see why those you actually become sick in Cuba and Canada or as GOOD AS DEAD. They never make it to a doctor in time to prevent from getting worst.  That&#039;s FACT not Michael Moore FICTION. Don&#039;t get to wrapped up in a specific plan.  If you TRUST the candidate and he has a HISTORY of KEEPING HIS WORD, then whatever he is telling you he wants to do, he will do it.  Focus more on the Vision and the Person.  Remember, Bill Clinton told people that he was going to protect jobs-- Hello NAFTA.  George Bush was going to have a HUMBLE FOREIGN POLICY-- Hello Big Oil and IRAQ.  They all had a PlAN. They each had character flaws and scandal before they became President.  All we got was more of the SAME.  Remember that before you vote this time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought Ron did great.  They did not give him any time to talk about anything else even though he has the 3rd most money than anyone on the stage.  His main issue is the war.  He needs to bring it up as much as possible.  Soon everyone will realize that he is the ONLY one that will bring the Troops home. Even the DEMS are going to continue with the WAR.  It is going to be hard for a REP to give you a PLAN like the DEMs.  Remember, REP are responsible and believe in limited Government, that means they are going to cut a lot of programs.  You don&#8217;t want to start Pissing people off by telling them Once you are in office, they&#8217;re FIRED.  He said often that he has to look at the programs because some he will not be able to cut altogether because too many people are dependent on them.  THE DEMS can give you all the PLANS in the world because they are for BIG GOVERNMENT-HIGHER TAXES.  That translate to YOU ARE SCREWED.  Since they would be increasing Governments POWER, they can be as specific as they want to be; however, that&#8217;s not to say that there plan would work.  You can&#8217;t give UNiversal Healthcare with an OPEN border.  IT&#8217;s impossible.  You&#8217;ll never control how many people you have; therefore, the amount you will have to spend to cover everyone will bankrupt you before the WAR will.  Besides, many of use cant just go the the doctor whenever want.  Some appointments may take up to a week.  Imagine how long it will be if everyone is calling to make an appointment.  Now you see why those you actually become sick in Cuba and Canada or as GOOD AS DEAD. They never make it to a doctor in time to prevent from getting worst.  That&#8217;s FACT not Michael Moore FICTION. Don&#8217;t get to wrapped up in a specific plan.  If you TRUST the candidate and he has a HISTORY of KEEPING HIS WORD, then whatever he is telling you he wants to do, he will do it.  Focus more on the Vision and the Person.  Remember, Bill Clinton told people that he was going to protect jobs&#8211; Hello NAFTA.  George Bush was going to have a HUMBLE FOREIGN POLICY&#8211; Hello Big Oil and IRAQ.  They all had a PlAN. They each had character flaws and scandal before they became President.  All we got was more of the SAME.  Remember that before you vote this time.</p>
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		<title>By: UCrawford</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39484</link>
		<dc:creator>UCrawford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 04:41:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/10/10/ron-paul-at-yesterdays-presidential-debate-debate-round-up/#comment-39484</guid>
		<description>James,

I think Paul&#039;s got a lot of common ground with the swing voters...potentially more than any other candidate.  The problem is, though, that most of them don&#039;t know who he is (which I hope will change when the TV ads start coming out) and most of them have only a passing knowledge of the issues without much desire to gain a more in-depth one.  So Paul needs to put the message in terminology the disinterested voter will get otherwise it&#039;ll scare them off and they&#039;ll go for the more conventional choice and not even give Paul an opportunity to make his case.  That&#039;s all I was saying.

But I agree with what you&#039;re saying about conservatives becoming the same as leftists (or the pigs becoming the same as men, as Orwell would put it).  Frankly, politics is both more complex and more simple than most voters seem to get.  It&#039;s more complex because there&#039;s a whole range of stuff outside the standard left-right/conservative-liberal terminology that the MSM often misses.  It&#039;s more simple because the only thing that matters about all those views is how they fit into the battle of statism vs. individualism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>I think Paul&#8217;s got a lot of common ground with the swing voters&#8230;potentially more than any other candidate.  The problem is, though, that most of them don&#8217;t know who he is (which I hope will change when the TV ads start coming out) and most of them have only a passing knowledge of the issues without much desire to gain a more in-depth one.  So Paul needs to put the message in terminology the disinterested voter will get otherwise it&#8217;ll scare them off and they&#8217;ll go for the more conventional choice and not even give Paul an opportunity to make his case.  That&#8217;s all I was saying.</p>
<p>But I agree with what you&#8217;re saying about conservatives becoming the same as leftists (or the pigs becoming the same as men, as Orwell would put it).  Frankly, politics is both more complex and more simple than most voters seem to get.  It&#8217;s more complex because there&#8217;s a whole range of stuff outside the standard left-right/conservative-liberal terminology that the MSM often misses.  It&#8217;s more simple because the only thing that matters about all those views is how they fit into the battle of statism vs. individualism.</p>
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