Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.

“It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong.”     Voltaire

October 23, 2007

Would Ron Paul Beat Hillary Or Obama ?

by Doug Mataconis

It’s a well known fact that, to date, most head-to-head polls show Hillary Clinton and Barak Obama easily beating any of the Republican frontrunners (Giuliani, McCain, Romney, Thompson) in a head-to-head matchup.

What about lower tier candidates like Ron Paul ?

Well, the latest Rasmussen Poll seems to indicate that the result would be about the same:

The latest Rasmussen Reports survey of Republican Congressman Ron Paul’s electoral strength shows him trailing top Democratic candidates by double digits. Senator Hillary Clinton leads Paul 48% to 38% (although among male voters, Paul lags Clinton by only two points).

Senator Barack Obama leads the Republican Congressman 50% to 38%.

Paul has gained ground since beginning his presidential campaign as a virtual unknown outside of his congressional district and some libertarian and conservative circles.

But the enthusiasm of supporters, his strength in GOP straw polls, and his surprising fundraising ability have yet to make him competitive in either GOP-nomination or general-election match-ups. In Iowa, Paul attracts just 2% of the vote and he has yet to top 3% in the Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll.

If Paul somehow manages to overcome long odds and win the Republican nomination, just 17% of Republicans and 12% of all voters think Paul has any chance of winning the general election. As the Republican nominee, only 4% believe Paul would be Very Likely to win in November 2008.

In other words, Paul fares no better, and in some cases worse, than any of the other Republican candidates against a Democrat who increasingly looks unbeatable in 2008.

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57 Comments

  1. IF Paul can win the Republican nomination, the spot light would be on him, the Democratic nominee, and whatever third party candidate runs. The third party candidate would get his typical mainstream media attention, the Democratic nominee would be endorsed by the media (whom the public trusts less and less), and the PUBLIC would be very curious about this NEW Republican nominee who obviously speaks the truth and has voted it for 20 yrs. or so.

    Obviously Pauls first priority is getting the nomination. IF he does (possible BIG if), the public will have nearly a year to have their eyes opened. With all that’s going on at presant, Paul will increasingly win their favor and I honestly believe that, barring a Democratic theft of the election, Paul would ride on into the White House, provided he isn’t made to “swim with the fishes” post nomination or pre general election.

    Pauls candidacy has a lot of “important” people worried and a lot of “unimportant” and “uncscientificaly” poled Americans hopeful. That’s a powerful combination. Just observe his speeches and the level of attendence. There’s something very REAL happening here, whether we choose to acknowledge it or not.

    Comment by Bubba Ram Elmer — October 23, 2007 @ 7:36 am
  2. Hillary is the new Neo-con. That’s why the Republicans are following the Oligarch’s lead – and fielding unelectable candidates. They didn’t count on Ron Paul’s message spreading like wild fire. Paul would defeat Hillary in a landslide – greater than Ronald Reagan’s victory.

    Comment by GeneG — October 23, 2007 @ 7:51 am
  3. Paul is not going to be popular, but neither are the other republican candidates. Guliani has alienated libertarians and the religious right (that’s a hat trick if I ever saw one), Romney and Kerry are twin puppets, Huckabee is a regulatory fiend who adores big government and nobody really has any enthusiasm for a McCain or Thompson ticket.

    the inevitability of a Democratic president is there because the republican party is shattered and no one out there has the strength to put it back together.

    Comment by Greg — October 23, 2007 @ 7:55 am
  4. I do think after this election would be a good time to infiltrate the republican party by libertarians and reshape it in our own image because the religious right will be most out of it and if we can shake up the leadership, we could really bring back the glory days of Taft, especially when all the democrats schemes start falling apart. It’ll be painful, but I think this presidential disaster this year could really help freedom’s cause.

    Comment by Greg — October 23, 2007 @ 7:59 am
  5. It’s interesting to look at more detailed results of this poll here http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/articles/ron-paul-general-election-vs-hillary-clinton.html

    Paul actually leads Clinton in the 40-49 age group, and has 41% to her 43% among those 30-39.

    The 38% overall is a reflection of where he is now, along with his lack of name recognition. In the period after the primaries, when it’s down to two candidates in the debates, who knows what will happen?

    Comment by Cathy — October 23, 2007 @ 8:28 am
  6. In other words, Paul fares no better, and in some cases worse, than any of the other Republican candidates against a Democrat who increasingly looks unbeatable in 2008.

    That may ultimately be true, but his awareness is still too low to be highly confident in those results.

    Besides, I’d want to see an electoral map. You’re talking about two people with very high negatives. The popular vote could turn out to be completely irrelevant.

    Comment by Jeff Molby — October 23, 2007 @ 8:41 am
  7. Ladies and Gentlemen,

    I think more and more people are realizing that Ron Paul is the only true conservative running for president! Huckabee has no money. McCain seems to be faltering in that regard too. Ron Paul has more cash on hand than McCain, and five times as much as Huckabee. He has the third most solvent campaign in the GOP. He has won most straw polls and every post-debate poll. So lets please stop pushing other candidates uphill and give Ron Paul the coverage that he deserves.

    Ron Paul is probably going to raise over $10 million this quarter. In fact, and this is a fact, he has raised over $400,000 in the last three days.

    Dr. Paul’s message is simple: Let freedom ring. He wants to force the federal government to follow the letter of the law of the Constitution, and restore many of our Constitutional freedoms that have become somewhat eroded in the past few years. Unlike Huckabee, who raised taxes to support big government as a governor, and any other GOP candidate, Ron Paul has an unblemished record as the most conservative man in Congress. He also carries a message that transcends political parties. He wants to turn the clock back to 1776 and fundamentally reevaluate where America stands today, and where we are headed.

    Furthermore, he is a non-interventionist, not an isolationist. Instead of isolation, he favors unfettered free trade, good relations with other countries, and a strong national defense. He wants to withdraw our forces from most of the over 130 countries where we are currently deployed with no intent to leave, and redeploy many of them on our borders to bring an immediate halt to illegal immigration. All he advocates is not interfering in the internal affairs of other nations–in short, respecting their sovereignty.

    Ron Paul has the same voting record in Congress that Thomas Jefferson would have–and pretty much carries the same message: Liberty. He has never voted for anything unconstitutional, earning him the name, “Dr. No.” His following continues to grow from people across the political spectrum.

    As Dr. Paul said, “Freedom brings people together, the Constitution brings people together, because it’s not aggressive, it is not antagonistic, it’s not judgmental. It says to us that we as a people should be allowed to be free, to lead our own lives, to mind our own business, to run our economy, and keep the fruits of our labor.”

    I am a patriot who has served our country for many years. Being a patriot means you love your country, not that you support war without end. I am a career Naval officer who has been politically neutral for my entire life, but this is about voting for America and our Constitution, which I took an oath to preserve! I now support Dr. Ron Paul with my wallet–and my heart. I hope you consider giving him more coverage.

    Very respectfully,
    J.P.

    Comment by J.P. — October 23, 2007 @ 8:42 am
  8. it’s ridiculous to poll it now.. paul’s name recognition isn’t high enough. But look at his ISSUES. if he’s the republican nominee he’s required by law to get equal time and he will, and people will take notice. VEGAS has him as the only one who can beat hilary. And vegas don’t screw around.

    Comment by tammy — October 23, 2007 @ 8:49 am
  9. Doug, why’d you only post the “bad” news?

    Still, Paul’s showing against both Clinton and Obama has improved moderately since July. Then, Paul lagged Clinton by 15 percentage points, Obama by 20.

    Paul is viewed favorably by just 26% of all voters, unfavorably by 32%. In April, only 14% had a favorable opinion of him.

    That sounds like significant progress to me.

    Comment by Jeff Molby — October 23, 2007 @ 9:00 am
  10. Unfortunately it looks like the only chance this time around for the GOP is to hang on to the religious right, something that Ron Paul is not likely to do. The Bush administration, in spite of failing in so many other ways, did one thing effectively: lead moderates away from the GOP. That’s not to say they can’t be recovered. The middle “purple” vote is growing quickly because we have such terrible candidates on both extremes. A libertarian president is not only likely, but seems almost inevitable in the next few elections.

    The point is, real conservatism is not the extreme right wing. It never was until Reagan. With a return to actual conservative beliefs, i.e. economic and FP conservatism with liberal social policies, the GOP vote will expand because it will come not from the extreme right, but will stick closer toward the middle. I don’t see Ron Paul having a chance this election, but it will happen.

    Comment by Erik P. — October 23, 2007 @ 9:13 am
  11. I know you disagree Erik, but the religious right is burying the Republican party – simply tied too tightly into the Israel Lobby, with the Rapture Ready leading the charge. Things are changing on the here on the ground, and more people are recogizing Israel has not been a true friend of America, but only of Israel. January 4th marks the latest push back date of AIPAC going to trial for espinoage. Surely this can’t be a plus for the religious right.

    Southern Baptists are not known to be our best free-thinkers, they follow the lead of the pulpit. That’s about to change also as Paul gains more recognition and respect. He’s scheduled to appear on a couple of high-profile talk shows shortly. It’ll be interesting to see how that greater name recognition may play out.

    What percentage of Rudy McRomson supporters can honestly say they’ve contributed funds, actively campaigned and are going to vote for their candidate in the Primaries? I think that figure is very small compared to those who are supporting Ron Paul.

    Comment by GeneG — October 23, 2007 @ 9:29 am
  12. Doug,
    I appreciate that you try to be unbiased. But man, you’re killin my buzz! As I see it, this is good news.

    Comment by John — October 23, 2007 @ 10:08 am
  13. Since his name recognition is only in the area of 30%, being 10-12 points behind Democratic candidates with near 100% name recognition sounds pretty good to me. Matter of fact, a R nomination would likely triple his name recognition. Given that, it sounds to me like Ron stands a good chance of beating either Hillary or Obama.

    Comment by James Maynard — October 23, 2007 @ 10:10 am
  14. Leave it to defeatist Doug to put more anti-Paul propaganda out in the thought stream.

    Eat a dick, Doug.

    Comment by Samj — October 23, 2007 @ 10:21 am
  15. If Paul had 15 MILLION dollars to spend on getting his message out there, he would EASILY beat Hillary PERIOD.

    screw you doug.

    Comment by nick — October 23, 2007 @ 10:42 am
  16. The polls do not reveal any real facts…. The polls are not taken by a large group… So far I have no one calling me at home and neither has anyone called anyone in our meet-up group which happens to have over 200 but we typically have 350-380 who attend every other week.

    So the polls are based on old world tactics… They are a fraud the only real polls which can be proven to be more accurate are GOP Sponsored Straw polls. In fact in prior elections they stressed Straw polls over other polling sources as a more valid source.

    It’s so easy to see they are playing games and Doug is just like the MSM.

    Keep your eye on the ball and we will hit a home run.

    A respected source has Paul winning NH, MI and placing 1st or second in Iowa.

    Don’t falter just keep donating and know they will play every game the book as they did with the last debate.

    Comment by Darel99 — October 23, 2007 @ 10:53 am
  17. Predictions are wishes pretending to be wisdom.

    Comment by John Howard — October 23, 2007 @ 11:00 am
  18. Anyone opposing Ron Paul is one of two things, either they lack the mental capacity to educate themselves on his real issues of freedom and taking off the chains of government or they are a bureaucratic government employee scared to death that they will actually have to work for a living once he sweeps into office.

    I am a lifelong conservative republican and I will be voting for freedom, I will be voting for Ron Paul.

    Comment by Steve — October 23, 2007 @ 11:00 am
  19. There is still plenty of time for Dr. Paul to be recognized by Americans and he will be.

    Lay your political affiliations aside, research the Presidential candidates and realize that there is only one with the best interests of the American people in mind.

    Comment by LT — October 23, 2007 @ 11:02 am
  20. I don’t agree LT, with the primarie being moved up, we don’t have much time. I have to get my Meetup group going here in ND, cya later.

    Comment by Dennis — October 23, 2007 @ 11:19 am
  21. The question is pointless right now. Ron Paul’s name recognition was around 30% a few weeks ago. It probably hasn’t hit 50% yet. No one will say they will vote for someone they don’t know.

    Ron Paul is the only Republican who has shown ANY appeal to independents, Democrats, Libertarians, Greens, and Constitution Party members. It’s obvious that he would do better in the general election than any other Republican (unless the Republican base deserts him over the war issue and flocks to Hillary, which seems highly unlikely.)

    Comment by Craig — October 23, 2007 @ 11:26 am
  22. Guess what, Ron Paul is a Southern Baptist. Who would have guessed?
    “I don’t care if I’m right or left on the issues, just so long as I’m not wrong”- Ron Paul

    Comment by hiimallen — October 23, 2007 @ 11:30 am
  23. See also:
    Unbelievable! NY Post takes out Ron Paul poll totals from published results
    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Unbelievable_NY_Post_takes_out_Ron_Paul_poll_totals_from_published_results

    Ron Paul Rally – Video
    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Ron_Paul_Rally_Video

    The #1 Ron Paul Internet Site
    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/The_1_Ron_Paul_Internet_Site

    Comment by Alex Hammer — October 23, 2007 @ 11:43 am
  24. Ron Pauls name is getting alot of play. I’ve got
    Vote Ron Paul for President on my back windshield and people honk and ask questions all the time.
    With the amount (small but better than before) of media coverage, and radio and television ads starting in the early primary states he’s going to do very well. Remember the 5th of November $100
    from 100,000 people donated to the Ron Paul 2008 campaign. We want to cement this thing early, $10,000 from the PUBLIC in one day would be overwhelming. ONLY DONATE AT THE RONPAUL2008.COM WEBSITE THANKS.

    Comment by KEITH — October 23, 2007 @ 12:02 pm
  25. That was supposed to read $10,000,000 from the PUBLIC in one day would be overwhelming. ONLY DONATE AT THE RONPAUL2008.COM WEBSITE THANKS

    Comment by KEITH — October 23, 2007 @ 12:03 pm
  26. Its not as important whether we win or lose, what is important is the meme that we revive in the American people. In this election the American people have 3 very important choices that will change the direction of this nation forever.

    1. they can choose Hilary Clinton/ Barak Obama socialism which will set us on the same path of the former Soviet Union and eventually we will fail as a nation.

    2. They can choose any other Republican which will continue the policies of corporatism and an increasing police State.

    Neiher of these above options will represent any sort of a significant change from the foriegn/ domestic policies that have hurt this nation, and will eventually destroy it.

    3. We can vote for Ron Paul. Who will dismantle the welfare/warfare state, abolish the income tax, restore civil rights, abolish the federal reserve, and restore the constitution as the supreme law of the land.

    Isn’t it time that we had a president, who takes the oath of office and means it?

    Comment by Johnnyb — October 23, 2007 @ 12:06 pm
  27. If Ron Paul wins the nomination it will mean that the MSM polls don’t matter and that we don’t need the MSM on our side to win.

    Comment by brody — October 23, 2007 @ 12:27 pm
  28. Everyone is donating $100 to Ron Paul on the 5th of November. (The new slogan for that day):

    Year 1605 (England)

    Remember, remember the fifth of November,
    Gunpowder, treason and plot,
    I see no reason why gunpowder treason,
    Should ever be forgot.

    Year 2007 (America)

    Remember, remember the fifth of November,
    Ron Paul, and the money he got,
    I see no reason my government’s treason,
    Should ever be forgot.

    Credit given:
    5th of November

    Comment by Jack W — October 23, 2007 @ 12:33 pm
  29. Momentum is a funny thing.

    It took Bill Clinton from 3% in the polls at this time in 1991 to the democratic winner of the primaries to the presidency.

    John Kerry was not polling well up to the actually primaries 4 years ago and still won the nomination.

    Gallup says not to trust their poll as an actual indicator of who will win. They see themselves as an indicator of name recognition.

    As for the Zogby poll, I suspect that the people surveyed were mostly older. Most younger people do not have land lines. It is great to see the support in the 30-39 and 40-49 age groups. Ron Paul has huge support on college campuses, I’m thinking those young adults were not polled.

    As for the Fox News poll, people are arguing that it is democrats, who will not vote in the primaries, voting for Dr. Paul. Maybe, but I don’t know many democrats who are looking to eliminate income tax.

    Why is it that when Gov. Huckabee does well in a poll noone questions the accuracy of the poll the way they do with Congressman Paul?

    Comment by Darren D. — October 23, 2007 @ 1:21 pm
  30. someone please write something about polling please! Mainstream media polls are a farce!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If9EWDB_zK4

    Comment by Theresa — October 23, 2007 @ 1:27 pm
  31. I don’t think the people that disrespected Ron Paul ever held a dead soldier on there hands. Things are really bad, but when I came back I didn’t know who my enemy was besides the people that were shooting at me . these solders hate us ( soldiers yes that’s what I said not terrorist) because we take there oil they hates us because we are in there land and they don’t believe we belong there.
    there protecting their home just like we do. This politicians want to keep my friends there longer and there mad! I donated what little money I can to Dr Paul. Bring my friends home. This war was lost from the day it started.

    Comment by Josh Maurken — October 23, 2007 @ 2:09 pm
  32. My earlier point was not that the GOP needs (or should want) to hold on to the religious right. Frankly I think if the GOP returned to its original principles, it could pick up more than enough support from moderates to compensate for the loss of the religious right. I, myself, wouldn’t mind seeing them in their own party where they could advocate Christian values for a Christian nation all they want. There is certainly a potential for a conservative libertarian party if we would only stop alienating those moderates by imposing laws about abortion and such moral issues that invariably smell like theocracy.

    Comment by Erik P. — October 23, 2007 @ 6:26 pm
  33. [...] read more | digg story [...]

    Pingback by Would Ron Paul Beat Hillary Or Obama ? « Revolt Blog — October 23, 2007 @ 8:18 pm
  34. What was it that Hannity at fox news said about the polls? He said they were “Just for Fun”, and obviously that was after Dr. Paul won his second poll on one of Fox’s Debates. Hannity also stated the polls don’t mean a thing. Hannity is one of the biggest Neo-Cons out there, but most folks already know that. He is such an idiot, and another war lover. Dr. Paul has a lot of supporters, and people that will vote for him. The mainstream media will be surprised to see the number when it comes time to vote. Ron Paul has my vote and my support.

    Tess, California

    Comment by Tess — October 23, 2007 @ 8:28 pm
  35. As Theresa pointed out, polls can’t be trusted (especially those run by Frank Luntz).

    Even so, this made me smile:

    http://www.usaelectionpolls.com/2008/articles/ron-paul-general-election-vs-hillary-clinton.html

    Comment by Nathan A. — October 23, 2007 @ 8:38 pm
  36. ‘Eat a Dick, Doug’

    Classic!

    Ron Paul 2008!!! Birthrights Reclaimed January ’09

    Comment by Rich — October 23, 2007 @ 9:19 pm
  37. Yea a classic substantive response from an 11 year old

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 23, 2007 @ 9:21 pm
  38. Ron Paul would fair very well against Hillary and I think it’s fair to say Ron Paul is in third place among Republicans…

    http://www.truthalert.net/Republican%20Presidential%20Candidate%20Rankings.htm

    Comment by Mike — October 23, 2007 @ 9:43 pm
  39. “…and his surprising fundraising ability…”

    Hmm, what ability would that be? Ahh the message. The polls don’t seem to say much except that Dr. Paul’s name isn’t recognized yet and that possibly the wrong sample of people is being taken (this is non traditional campaign and voters.) What the fundraising numbers do show is that Dr. Paul brings in $50,000 on a slow day and $170,000 on a good day, every day, in donations. Average donation is around $100. So that means that 500 to 1,700 people donate to the campaign per day. If you assume 1 in 10 donates that means 5,000 to 17,000 new people per day, join the campaign, with lag. And these numbers are going up and up every week over week. I don’t know what the actual ratio of donors to joiners is, but what if that ratio is 1:20.

    There is a big disconnect between the poll numbers and donors. Doesn’t anyone else see this as very strange? There is no “special fundraising ability” unless you use crooks like other candidates that just drop a million here and there.

    Comment by Mark — October 24, 2007 @ 12:50 am
  40. Oh for goodness sake. You are comparing a man who most of the country barely knows his name to the most recognized face in the country. The fact that he does so well right now shows that if he got the nomination and others actually heard his platform he would cream her in a general election.

    He is going up by at least ten percent a month, while she is staying stagnant. No other Republican can say that.

    This shows me that Ron Paul is doing astonishing well. For a man who is supposedly only polling at one or two percent, he is only 15 points behind her? Doesn’t anyone else find that astonishing! With all the blackballing the media has done of Ron Paul and still he is within striking distance and rising?

    Dear GOP – either back Ron Paul, stop this stupid blackout against him, get behind a man who supports everything the GOP used to stand for or get slaughtered in the next election. You may even lose enough supporters to cease being a party.

    I promise I will leave forever if you keep this neo-con stuff up! I will be Independent or Libertarian from now on! I will stay a Republican until after the primaries, but after that I am gone.

    You are a war mongering, fear driving, evil group of manipulators who want to destroy the fabric of our country by removing all of our liberties and freedoms and put us into a police state. I will not back a group of people that boo a man on stage who calls for peace and cheers men who call for dropping nuclear weapons on defenseless women and children hoping their flesh will fall off in searing pain. Whoever filled that hall during the Florida debate – if that is what mainstream GOP looks like these days, well, you are all sick.

    Pre-emptive nuclear strikes? What civilized person hears those words and doesn’t throw stones at the speaker? What has happened to this country? I will never be a Republican again!

    I cry at night not knowing how to stop these madmen.

    Comment by George — October 24, 2007 @ 8:01 am
  41. George,
    Instead of leaving the party after the Paul campaign stay in the party and help change it. The only candidates that are going to win are Democrats and Republicans changing to some other party gives you less say in who eventually wins. I’m not saying you should vote Republican in the general election but stay in the major party that comes closest to your views and work to improve it.

    Comment by Bob — October 24, 2007 @ 8:10 am
  42. At this point i don’t think I could find a party that seems farthest away from my views unless i chose the Nazi party. Now, I am not saying that neo-cons are Nazis, but they are not close to the Republican party.

    Sadly, I don’t see anyone in the GOP standing up to fight those hijackers. Redstate and FreeRepublic have both been taken over by the Clintons and the rest of you kitties just lay there and take it. Ok, fine. What is there to fight for.

    I will turn to the Libertarians before I will set foot in that war mongering, hate generating, cruel party again.

    I have heard rumors that the Clintons have really just inserted a bunch of their people into Redstate and FreeRepublic to speak ill of Ron Paul because they are terrified of him. Nothing else makes sense.

    Why would you kick out the only man who resonates with 65% or more of the people and instead look for one that only 35% or less can get behind. Some studies show that 80% of the people will not vote for more war and all the Republicans can do is throw out the only anti-war candidate they have…either they are stupid or they have been infiltrated by Clintons people who are riling up the morons over there who wouldn’t know a patriot if Thomas Jefferson hit them over the head.

    When conservative sites such as redstate and freerepublic kick out all Ron Paul talk and then can’t stop printing articles about him trying to get his supporters back, I realized I have no place left to go.

    There are no conservatives anymore. Either the GOP starts fighting tooth and nail for Ron Paul or they will be trying to get those nails out of their own coffins.

    Face it. The party is dying and no one is fighting for it.

    I find it funny watching them shoot themselves in the foot. That will be one consolation when Clinton is in the White House.

    Comment by George — October 25, 2007 @ 12:42 pm
  43. Can I ask what the purpose of this publication is? You call yourself liberty papers but then consistently seem to back socialist candidates.

    For example, this article. The fact that Ron Paul who has no name recognition at all is doing so well against her shows that he is really moving up. You left out the part that showed that he gained four points in a week – a funny thing to leave out unless you are for the socialist candidate and you continually put him down.

    I don’t understand you. You seem to have an identity crisis.

    Comment by George — October 25, 2007 @ 12:48 pm
  44. Can I ask what the purpose of this publication is? You call yourself liberty papers but then consistently seem to back socialist candidates.

    It’s just Mataconis, George. The other authors are pretty good.

    Comment by Jeff Molby — October 25, 2007 @ 1:20 pm
  45. You give up much too easily! Yes, the neocons are in charge but that won’t always be true. But to change it conservatives are going to need every activist and voter they can get. You say “I don’t see anyone in the GOP standing up to fight those hijackers” what about Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, and Paul Broun? Broun won a special election in Georgia a few months ago. Google him, I think you’ll like what you see. I know that none of these guys are perfect but they are steps in the right direction.

    You ask “Why would you kick out the only man who resonates with 65% or more of the people..?” I assume you’re referring to RP’s anti war stance. While its true that most voters are against the war its also true that most voters don’t agree with Paul’s stand to “just march home”. Listen to the Democrats, Clinton and Obama won’t promise to have the troops home by the end of their 1st terms. Obama and Clinton have done their homework, they realize where most Americans want to hear. As for the Redstate ban, that was partially the fault of RP supporters. Some of them were pretty sad. They need to offer more to the discussion than Run Ron Run and like Hitler the neocons are pro war while Ron Paul is anti war like Mother Theresa.

    Never ever give up! I look forward to seeing you in a foxhole fighting for good conservative values!

    Comment by Bob — October 25, 2007 @ 1:52 pm
  46. You might want to investigate the Republican Liberty Caucus. You won’t be alone in the fight to take back our party.

    Comment by Bob — October 25, 2007 @ 2:28 pm
  47. Jeff,

    It’s just Mataconis, George. The other authors are pretty good

    I find it ironic that libertarians, who supposedly believe in free minds, get so bent out of shape when one of their own dares to raise questions about a favored candidate.

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 25, 2007 @ 8:37 pm
  48. Instead of leaving the party after the Paul campaign stay in the party and help change it. The only candidates that are going to win are Democrats and Republicans changing to some other party gives you less say in who eventually wins. I’m not saying you should vote Republican in the general election but stay in the major party that comes closest to your views and work to improve it.

    Given that most of the Paul supporters I’ve spoken to, and the ones who’ve posted here, have made it clear that they aren’t going to vote for any Republican other than Ron Paul, how likely do you think it is that this will happen on a large scale ?

    Personally, that’s what I was hoping would come of RP’s candidacy. Winning the nomination was never a realistic option, but beginning the process of taking back the GOP certainly is — assuming there are people willing to do it.

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 25, 2007 @ 8:39 pm
  49. I find it ironic that libertarians, who supposedly believe in free minds, get so bent out of shape when one of their own dares to raise questions about a favored candidate.

    If you check the history, you’ll see that I gave you the benefit of the doubt for at least a month. However, it eventually became apparent that your commentary on RP was consistently tabloid-esque. I can get that tripe from the MSM.

    Show me some real intellectual writing and I will respond in kind.

    beginning the process of taking back the GOP certainly is — assuming there are people willing to do it.

    A minority can’t influence the majority unless it’s willing to walk. The Christian Right know this, but they’re probably already bluffing. The libertarians.

    If we made it clear that the GOP could no longer win an election without seriously paying attention to us, they would in a heartbeat.

    I’ve voted R many times in the past and I’ll do so many times in the future so long as they meet my one condition: start reducing the size of the government.

    I’m not vindictive; I’m just no longer willing to sacrifice my long term interests for a miniscule short term benefit.

    Comment by Jeff Molby — October 25, 2007 @ 10:08 pm
  50. Jeff,

    Unfortunately, the libertarian wing of the GOP is so small that I doubt it would really have much of an impact on a national election.

    And, in the context of 2008, where the GOP is almost certainly destined to lose the White House regardless of who the nominee is, I don’t think anyones going to notice if you, me, or a few more libertarians don’t vote Republcian.

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 25, 2007 @ 10:11 pm
  51. I think you’re wrong. I think the libertarian wing is merely understated because it’s been beaten down for quite some time. I also think Ron Paul waking it up and giving it a reason to thump its chest again. And if all goes well, it’ll be the bulk of the party that has to choose between the lesser of two “evils” this time.

    Comment by Jeff Molby — October 26, 2007 @ 12:25 am
  52. Some Paul supporters will run for the high grass after the 1st defeat. I think a significant number will stay with the Republican party. They realize that the Republicans give their ideas a platform that no 3rd party can offer. Many Paul supporters have started to attend Republican party functions and have found out that they are not alone.
    If you want socialized health care and the other joys of another Clinton presidency vote LP. That will teach those Republicans a lesson. :-)

    Comment by Bob — October 26, 2007 @ 4:35 am
  53. Bob,

    what about Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, and Paul Broun?

    Buchanan ? Are you serious ? The guy is a paleo-conservative, isolationist, authoritarian. I’d no sooner vote for him than Giuliani.

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 26, 2007 @ 8:09 am
  54. Doug,
    I think George’s main disagreement with the GOP is the war and Buchanan is against the war.
    Buchanan is a lot closer to Paul than Giuliani. Buchanan and Paul are against the war, pro-life, pro-2nd amendment, pro-low taxes and pro-border security. Paul and Giuliani both agree that Hillary shouldn’t be president and … hmm. Can you come up with any? I know Pat’s far from perfect but Giuliani?!!?

    Comment by Bob — October 26, 2007 @ 8:45 am
  55. Bob,

    Let’s see, there’s Buchanan’s nativism, his opposition to immigration in any form even legal, his protectionism, his position on the regulation of so-called “obscenity”, his position on prayer in public schools.

    Need I go on ?

    If you are asking me to choose between Buchanan and Giuliani, I choose neither.

    Comment by Doug Mataconis — October 26, 2007 @ 8:48 am
  56. if 51% of the people have expressed they would “NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY” then how do you get that she is 38% the favorite over Ron Paul?

    Ron Paul’s major drawback is he still believes that the people should be taxed, when it has been proven the Government doesn’t need it. The 2003 tax cut reduced the deficit by 48 billion. The congress has to stop the pork spending. period.

    Ron Paul’s other shortcoming is that he wants to get out of Iraq immediately. The results would be devastating, check any serious analysis. It also shows he doesn’t understand the Mid-East stability issues and how it would effect us.

    Comment by JohnB — November 6, 2007 @ 1:25 pm
  57. News Flash – Ron Paul hit the higest one day contributions to his coffers, 2.4 mil, IN ONE DAY!
    Seems he is gaining ground.

    The only way Hillary can win is if the conservitives (less government) are divided into multiple candidates, like how Bill Clinton got elected.

    Comment by JohnB — November 6, 2007 @ 1:30 pm

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