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	<title>Comments on: Why Capitalism Is Not Anti-Environment</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47285</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 16:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Will,

Actually, the generalization already exists, I was pointing to this as one concrete example.  Humans, by nature, don&#039;t like pollution.  Whether through the market or the government, we tend to punish those who are dirty.

The wider point (and this better addresses Dogma_addicts&#039; comment), though, is that the way out  of the mess isn&#039;t simply banning things you don&#039;t like.  It&#039;s finding ways to make them better, which is what technology offers us.  For example, there are lots of very smart people working on finding alternative ways of generating energy.  Hybrids are an example of a desire to reduce pollution and increase gas mileage (thus decreasing usage cost) of automobiles.  Banning internal combustion engines won&#039;t make automobile technology better any faster, it will just make it a hell of a lot more expensive and less efficient as those very smart people continue working.  Technological breakthroughs are unplanned, and adding pressure doesn&#039;t change that, it just makes sure that we&#039;ll use what&#039;s infant technology is currently available and inefficient while we wait, instead of using what&#039;s already proven and working at lower cost.  We may internalize the externality with current alternative-fuel technology, but by doing so we&#039;re trading economic growth for a cleaner environment, when allowing that economic growth to occur first will likely lead to that cleaner environment down the road naturally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will,</p>
<p>Actually, the generalization already exists, I was pointing to this as one concrete example.  Humans, by nature, don&#8217;t like pollution.  Whether through the market or the government, we tend to punish those who are dirty.</p>
<p>The wider point (and this better addresses Dogma_addicts&#8217; comment), though, is that the way out  of the mess isn&#8217;t simply banning things you don&#8217;t like.  It&#8217;s finding ways to make them better, which is what technology offers us.  For example, there are lots of very smart people working on finding alternative ways of generating energy.  Hybrids are an example of a desire to reduce pollution and increase gas mileage (thus decreasing usage cost) of automobiles.  Banning internal combustion engines won&#8217;t make automobile technology better any faster, it will just make it a hell of a lot more expensive and less efficient as those very smart people continue working.  Technological breakthroughs are unplanned, and adding pressure doesn&#8217;t change that, it just makes sure that we&#8217;ll use what&#8217;s infant technology is currently available and inefficient while we wait, instead of using what&#8217;s already proven and working at lower cost.  We may internalize the externality with current alternative-fuel technology, but by doing so we&#8217;re trading economic growth for a cleaner environment, when allowing that economic growth to occur first will likely lead to that cleaner environment down the road naturally.</p>
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		<title>By: Dogma_addict</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47268</link>
		<dc:creator>Dogma_addict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 07:54:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While I agree with the premise, this doesn&#039;t strike me as that good of an example. Who&#039;s to say that banning the bad harvesting method wouldn&#039;t have been the very incentive needed to motivate the market to discover an eco-friendly method?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I agree with the premise, this doesn&#8217;t strike me as that good of an example. Who&#8217;s to say that banning the bad harvesting method wouldn&#8217;t have been the very incentive needed to motivate the market to discover an eco-friendly method?</p>
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		<title>By: Will</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47265</link>
		<dc:creator>Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:56:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47265</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You can hardly make a generalization about environmentalism and capitalism based on one example in which shellfish farmers have happened to find a more cost-efficient way to do something that happens to be more eco-friendly. The thing is: capitalism will do what it must to make a profit. If the new, more efficient, more cost-effective way of getting shellfish happened to be more polluting, it would probably still be implemented anyway - see what I mean? The environment is a what we call a &#039;market externality&#039;, and a free market system does not take it into account. This is where the government must step in and impose regulations. The example you&#039;ve given us is a happy situation in which a more cost-effective technique has resulted in gains for the environment as a side-effect, but this is hardly what happens usually.

The solution? In addition to government guidelines, the market needs to be restructured so that going green is INHERENTLY profitable, not the opposite. There are few ways to do this: create demand for green, or use the government to create incentives for green or penalties for anti-green (as previously mentioned). Rallying market forces to accomplish environmental goals has never been a bad idea, but it takes effort.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can hardly make a generalization about environmentalism and capitalism based on one example in which shellfish farmers have happened to find a more cost-efficient way to do something that happens to be more eco-friendly. The thing is: capitalism will do what it must to make a profit. If the new, more efficient, more cost-effective way of getting shellfish happened to be more polluting, it would probably still be implemented anyway &#8211; see what I mean? The environment is a what we call a &#8216;market externality&#8217;, and a free market system does not take it into account. This is where the government must step in and impose regulations. The example you&#8217;ve given us is a happy situation in which a more cost-effective technique has resulted in gains for the environment as a side-effect, but this is hardly what happens usually.</p>
<p>The solution? In addition to government guidelines, the market needs to be restructured so that going green is INHERENTLY profitable, not the opposite. There are few ways to do this: create demand for green, or use the government to create incentives for green or penalties for anti-green (as previously mentioned). Rallying market forces to accomplish environmental goals has never been a bad idea, but it takes effort.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47261</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Dec 2007 05:15:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/12/13/why-capitalism-is-not-anti-environment/#comment-47261</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[While we&#039;re at it, we may as well point out that the places with the worst pollution in the world are almost universally places with tremendous amounts of government interference in the market.  We might also point out that one of the current US government-preferred way of handling pollution is to increase corn ethanol subsidies, even though corn ethanol production uses almost as much energy as it creates and even though this causes world food prices to rise.  And we might also add that government interference in markets (aka, trade protectionism of various stripes) shields polluters from having to pay for damages caused by pollution....

I could go on....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While we&#8217;re at it, we may as well point out that the places with the worst pollution in the world are almost universally places with tremendous amounts of government interference in the market.  We might also point out that one of the current US government-preferred way of handling pollution is to increase corn ethanol subsidies, even though corn ethanol production uses almost as much energy as it creates and even though this causes world food prices to rise.  And we might also add that government interference in markets (aka, trade protectionism of various stripes) shields polluters from having to pay for damages caused by pollution&#8230;.</p>
<p>I could go on&#8230;.</p>
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