Well That Didn’t Take Long — New Hampshire Losers Allege Voter Fraud

It hasn’t even been two days since the polls closed in New Hampshire, and the allegations of voter fraud have already started:

AUSTIN – The results weren’t even in when the blogosphere started to hum with a theory that sharply divided Democrats online: Barack Obama lost to Hillary Rodham Clinton in New Hampshire because the vote was rigged.

“Something stinks in New Hampshire,” a commenter posted on the popular liberal site Americablog.com.

Curious about the “wildly inaccurate” polls that put Mr. Obama in a double-digit lead going into Tuesday’s primary, blogger Brad Friedman, a Los Angeles-based election-fraud watchdog, questioned the results as soon as they arrived, and all day Wednesday.

“Other folks that I’ve spoken to, who follow this sort of thing, share my concern at this hour,” he wrote on bradblog.com. “If I was Barack Obama, I’d certainly not have conceded this election this quickly. I’m not quite sure what he was thinking.”

And it was just the left wing bloggers who were crying vote fraud, the Ron Paul crowd has taken up the call as well:

It wasn’t just on the Democratic side: Supporters of Texas Republican U.S. Rep. Ron Paul were pointing to discrepancies in at least one town, where dozens of votes cast were initially counted as zero – before an elections official corrected the error. Mr. Paul’s campaign did not return calls seeking comment.

Given the way elections, and their aftermath, have gone in this country since Bush v. Gore, it’s not entirely surprising that we would see something like this, though it’s a little surprising that it started almost as soon as the polls closed.

What’s really going on, of course, is that people simply aren’t willing to accept that the people of New Hampshire voted in a way different from what they would like. In the Obama case, I noted yesterday that there are several entirely reasonable explanations for the discrepancies between the last-minute polls and the results. Before concluding that Obama was the victim of a Clinton-esque conspiracy, perhaps his supporters should consider the fact that their candidate just plain old lost on Tuesday.

The same goes for the Ron Paul supporters making the same allegations. Apparently, there was one town where 31 votes were cast for Ron Paul but were not properly transcribed on to the official tally sheet that is used by the state. That error was correct and was obviously the result of a human error, something that has happened in elections since the beginning of the Republic. But the Paul-ites have latched onto this isolated incident and have bought into the looney left’s story of a Diebold-run conspiracy.

But, you know, facts are stubborn things, and, as this post over at Daily Kos points out, there was no vote rigging in New Hampshire:

Many folks immediately suspect that any election results they found surprising—and whether they know enough about local and statewide voting patterns to be surprised is always a good question—are most easily explained by malfeasance by the Diebold corporation or exploitation of its machines. There are many problems for these folks who look for the most exotic (and maybe reassuring) explanation for an election result they don’t like, but in this case, let’s start out with a fairly basic one: voters in every town in New Hampshire cast their vote on a paper ballot, and in more than half of the towns in New Hampshire, the paper ballots are counted by hand.

Fewer than half the towns in New Hampshire tabulate votes with optical scanners. More than half the votes cast are counted by optical scanners, as most of the bigger cities and towns—including Manchester, Nashua, Portsmouth, Concord, Claremont, Hanover, Keene and Plymouth—use the scanners. But more municipalities count by hand. And as someone relatively well-versed in the voting patterns of New Hampshire, let me tell you there appear to be no discrepancies in the Clinton/Obama/Edwards votes between the towns that tabulate votes by scanning and those that count by hand. Obama won many of the larger towns—Keene, Hanover, Concord, Portsmouth, Lebanon, Plymouth, Durham. Clinton won others—Manchester, Nashua, Berlin, Gorham, Claremont.

The writer doesn’t address the Republican race, but the evidence would be the same. Don’t blame Diebold for the fact that your candidate didn’t do as well as you might have liked.

The Kos diarist makes this final point:

[T]here’s tremendous arrogance and/or ignorance at play when people assume that Hillary Clinton’s victory in Tuesday’s New Hampshire primary is or might be explained by election fraud.

And the same thing can be said about Ron Paul’s loss. The election in New Hampshire is over, it’s time to move on. Whether it’s Barack Obama or Ron Paul, you do your candidate no favor by rambling on about non-existent conspiracies.

Update: I neglected to link to it earlier, but you can find my examination of what really happened in the Obama/Hillary race here.

Update 1/11/08: Apparently, this entire fiasco has led to some unjustifiable harassment of the town clerk of Sutton, New Hampshire.

  • JW

    All people are asking for is why there is such a huge discrepancy. Please don’t nametag anyone who is raising these questions as being a sore loser or conspiracy theorist. Even you mentioned your surprise that these allegations are surfacing so early — this is due to the fact that this kind of mismatch is unprecedented.

    These are honest questions that deserve honest answers and contrary to what others are saying, the exit polls do NOT support the results. Chris Matthews yesterday drilled a panel on why they don’t match.

    We require publicly traded companies to give account for every penny that is spent — why don’t we have anything like this for transparency and accountability of our vote counting system not to mention to know the bi-partisan methods of who is programming the cards that count them?

    It’s our democracy we’re talking about and that’s what’s at stake here — the integrity of our voting process.

  • MR GRINCH

    The attitude of this article disgraces the name of this page…..

    Please take your head out of the sand. This piece is pure low grade propaganda.

    Its as if a Rigged Election is of no import.

    In other countries rigged elections ARE A BIG DEAL!!!! ….as in firing squads!
    ===================================
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/
    Have updated results been published for NH Primaries?
    It looks like there are confirmed reports of miscounted votes for Ron Paul in NH – Sutton county and one other place, so far. Have these number been updated anywhere to reflect actual votes?
    MAybe these numbers are insignificant – I don’t know – but it would be nice to see corrections, since there have been admitted mistakes. More

    1-9-08: New England voting machine firm has executive criminal record
    They program every single voting machine in New Hampshire, Connecticut, almost all of Massachusetts, Vermont, and Maine. But did state officials in five New England states ever do a criminal background check on this company’s executives? Do the laws of these five states even ALLOW them to hire convicted criminals for services paid for by the state? What about over 500 local towns and municipalities?

    According to my sources, LHS Marketing and Sales Director Ken Hajjar grew up with owner John Silvestro in Lawrence, Massachusetts. They both moved to Londonderry, New Hampshire, where Ken Hajjar was arrested, indicted, and pleaded guilty to “sale / CND” and sentenced to 12 months in the Rockingham County Correctional facility, and fined $2000. As things go for the politically connected, he was then given a deferred sentence and $1000 of his fine was suspended….cont on link

  • Jeff

    With diebold’s history is anyone surprised? The vote can’t be trusted, period! If every vote was taxable you could bet your butt that the government would have a way of insuring accuracy! Democracy is an illusion until the votes are always counted with 100% accuracy and transparency!

  • Yobama

    Exactly! I see no reason to care whether or not poll reults are correct. Why even think twice about it. Let’s just let whatever happens happen. People are so picky. I mean, it’s not realy that big of a deal anyway.
    /sarcasm

  • DannyM

    I was actually questioning the New Hampshire results and was beginning to think about voter fraud, until I read this this piece. You are right, I have sinned. I promise not to question any election results ever again.

  • Ryan

    There are at least TWO cities in NH that posted 0 votes for Ron Paul, then somehow found 31 (8%) and 25 (14%) votes for him the next day (Sutton and Greenville respectively). Neither of them were counted by Diebold. That’s a pattern, not some random mistake.

    The company (LHS Associates) has an executive who is a convicted felon for drug trafficking. They counted 81% of all of the votes in NH and more in neighboring states.

    http://www.blackboxvoting.org

  • http://myspace.com/shohadaku Kevin Santoro

    “Not accept people voted a different way”?? No way. What I won’t accept is the fact our votes are counted by machines proven to be easily hacked to alter the outcome. Shame on all of you for accepting the corrupt way our votes are counted. Democracy is a lie until we get fair counting of votes.
    In many counties Ron Paul might not have won, maybe so. Fact remains there are many cases of proven discrepencies. Don’t you dare try to play down the fact our voting process needs close watch to keep it legit.
    With proof of fraud we need to act now. Your comment insinuating “sore loosers” is insulting to the concept of a Free society with checks and balances. Stop acting like sheep and wake up to realize our votes were not counted. We must stop accepting media propaganda and demand media that sticks to facts. We must demand our Constitution be legalized or accept the trend of being treated like cattle.
    I want to see if New Hampshire deserves it’s “Live free or die” motto.
    Any questions on how “fair” debold machines are, watch “Hacking Democracy” from HBO, or any of the court videos SHOWING PROOF these machines are easily manipulated.
    You media should be ashamed of yourselves for selling your Country out. Our founding fathers are rolling in their graves.
    Ron Paul lives by consistant Constitutional principles. We could not have dreamed up a better man to honestly bring positive change to America.

  • Gabe Harris

    non verifiable elections are rigged elections. How can you dismiss the “Error” in sutton NH nad he suspicious activity in greenville…we checked one place and immediately uncovered classic rigging techniques..yet we are conspiracy theorists.

    The statistical chances of the paper totals vs diebold totals being so different(for obama vs clinton) while all the other totals are about the smae is very low..it is unlikely that this is by chance…we have forer programmers coming out admitting they were asked to rig elections…your a idiot or a shill if you smear people who don’t immediately trust the government.

  • Elaine McKillop

    Part of the vote in New Hampshire was counted by hand (20%) and the rest was counted by Diebold. The percentage for Ron Paul on the hand counted votes was 15%. When tallied with the Diebold count he ended up with roughly 8%. 15% would have put Ron Paul in third place. Our own CIA has rigged elections all over the world and you think it can’t happen here? The inattention of the American people has already cost us most of our liberty. Wake up America and start taking a stand for justice before it is to late!

  • MR GRINCH

    Tess
    Posts: 33
    ———————————–
    Now, I’m no statistician, and these results would need to be checked by others. But these are my initial findings.
    After plugging the republican votes from each precinct into a spreadsheet, I get these totals:

    Hand Counted Ballots (total votes, percent of hand-counted votes)
    —————————————————————–

    Total Votes cast: 51096

    R. Giuliani 4273, 8.36%
    M. Huckabee 6813, 13.33%
    D. Hunter 305, 0.60%
    J. McCain 20380, 39.89%
    R. Paul 4654, 9.11% (weird number, huh? I didn’t manipulate this, this is the exact percent)
    M. Romney 13976, 27.35%
    F. Thompson 681, 1.33%
    H. Cort 14, 0.03%

    Diebold Accuvote optical scan (total votes, percent of scanned votes)
    ——————————————————————

    Total Votes cast: 179779

    R. Giuliani 15981, 8.89%
    M. Huckabee 19543, 10.87%
    D. Hunter 906, 0.50%
    J. McCain 67355, 37.47%
    R. Paul 13335, 7.42%
    M. Romney 60463, 33.63%
    F. Thompson 2168, 1.21%
    H. Cort 28, 0.02%

    (adds up to 100.01 percent due to rounding to 2 decimal places)

    If anyone wants the Excel file to check my data, please name a place to upload it, and I’ll be happy to oblige.
    ———————————————————-

    If the Diebold precinct results had been in line with the hand counted ballots, this is what we would have expected.

    R. Giuliani (8.36% of 179779 = 15029) 952 less votes
    M. Huckabee (13.33% of 179779 = 23964) 4421 more votes
    D. Hunter (0.60% of 179779 = 1079) 173 more votes
    J. McCain (39.89% of 179779 = 71714) 4359 more votes
    R. Paul (9.11% of 179779 = 16378) 3043 more votes
    M. Romney (27.35% of 179779 = 49134) 11329 less votes
    F. Thompson (1.33% of 179779 = 2391) 223 more votes
    H. Cort (0.03% of 179779 = 54) 26 more votes

    Diebold Accuvote winners:
    Giuliani – 952 more votes than expected (Diebold produces 6.33% more votes than expected)
    Romney – 11329 more votes than expected (Diebold produces 23.05% more votes than expected)

    Diebold Accuvote Losers:
    Huckabee – 4421 less votes than expected
    Hunter – 173 less votes than expected
    McCain – 4359 less votes than expected
    Paul – 3043 less votes than expected (Diebold produces 18.57% less votes that expected)
    Thompson – 223 less votes than expected
    Cort – 26 less votes than expected

  • DrEast

    I don’t think anyone’s saying Ron Paul lost because of voter fraud… the implication in the last paragraph that people are saying that makes legitimate concerns over voting accountability sound like deranged ranting.

    Any avoidable misrepresentation of the voters of this country is fraud, plain and simple. Accountability is, almost literally, the soul of democracy, the entire justification for its many faults. Democracy without accountability is no more nor less than arbitrary totalitarianism.

    So don’t be too hasty to laugh off the cries for greater accountability. You can’t have too much of it, after all.

  • EatLeasThanC

    This guy Doug is the poster boy for: “The Bigger the Lie, the More People will Accept it.” Even when there are FACTS that the vote tally in NH was not correct he spins it into the spew he wrote. Are we bugg’n you Doug? HEY ARE WE BUGG’N YOU MAN? I HOPE SO! Bring it on Ron Paul – lets get it on baby!

  • Chris

    oh look, Doug Mataconis is here to tell everyone how it is and call people names. This site sucks and has sucked for a LONG time. Sure, you’ve got all the answers and we shouldn’t pay attention to the man behind the curtain because… why? Oh yeah, itz bekuz yer so fuking smrt, rite?

  • Jeremiah Ellison

    Vote fraud is treason.

    While it may not technically be treason, the act of a few try to subvert the will of the people by manipulating the outcome of an election is by nature, treason.

    This should be taken seriously. I don’t care if it’s less than a 1% change. I have no illusions that Ron Paul would advance above 4th place.

    Maybe you’re not aware that election fraud is engineered to steal elections. It’s not something fluffy and flowery. When this country is no longer “of the people, by the people,” it will no longer be FOR THE PEOPLE.

    Heads should roll. You don’t like that? You’re part of the problem.

  • lazarus

    Yes, let’s all just keep our mouths shut and accept the vote unquestioningly. That, or risk being labelled conspiracy lunatics. This guy and his ilk make me sick. These are the same people that willingly swallow the lies of gw bush and company, and when you actually dare to disagree, YOU’RE UNAMERICAN!!

  • Tannim

    Sorry, Doug, that attitude don’t fly this time. Sutton and Greenville were not “number transfer errors”. They were blatant. Forgetting a digit or a transposition is a transfer error. Changing 31 to 0 is a deliberate act. There was also a county where this happened to Romney as well.

    We do know Dixville notch was accurate as they do it the old fashioned way–they tally the votes out loud on a white board.

  • Ellen

    This article stinks of propoganda. It’s the equivalent of “Nothing to see here, folks. Move along, move along!”

  • Toaster

    When a pattern emerges, such as has happened with Ron Paul’s votes (and no, I am not a RP supporter) being thrown out in multiple places, then it seems less likely it is accidental and certainly worth looking into.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Outside of a few isolated incidents that I contend can be ascribed to human error, what evidence do you have that Ron Paul received substantially more votes in New Hampshire than is being reported ?

    The burden, I would suggest, is on those making the allegation.

  • Will

    The further MSM and biased ass sites such as kos get from an open discussion based upon integrity, not favoritism…the more we know there’s a story being washed over.
    “And as someone relatively well-versed in the voting patterns of New Hampshire, let me tell you there appear to be no discrepancies in the Clinton/Obama/Edwards votes between the towns that tabulate votes by scanning and those that count by hand. Obama won many of the larger towns—Keene, Hanover, Concord, Portsmouth, Lebanon, Plymouth, Durham. Clinton won others—Manchester, Nashua, Berlin, Gorham, Claremont.”

    Pre Election polls put Obama ahead by 8.3%
    USA Today Exit Polls predict Obama win
    Guardian Exit Polls predict Obama win
    By MachineClinton: 39.595%Obama: 36.386%
    By HandObama: 38.785%Clinton: 34.703%
    Vote Fraud Confirmed in Sutton, New Hampshire
    One man programs 81% of New Hampshire voting machines

    Doug…do the math.
    New Hampshire was rigged.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Will,

    It is ironic that some of the same people who were telling me a month ago not to believe the polls are now using the polls as evidence in their assertion that the vote was rigged.

    You can’t have it both ways.

    There is a very simple explanation for why Hillary won on Tuesday. (1) more women showed up at the polls than the pollsters had provided for in their models, (2) exit polls show that people who decided their vote in the 48 hours prior to the primary broke strongly for Clinton, and (3) independents broke more evenly between Obama and McCain than the polls had indicated, which hurt Obama.

  • http://www.thecaseforronpaul.com Cleaner44

    Vote fraud confirmed in Sutton, NH.

    TOWN OF SUTTON CONFIRMS RON PAUL TOTALS WERE 31, NOT ZERO.

    Jennifer Call, Town Clerk for Sutton confirmed that the Ron Paul totals in Sutton were actually 31 not zero as was originally reported.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Cleaner,

    A transcription error from one form to another does not constitute fraud.

  • angry as hell

    A transciption ommission on purpose is treason and fraud.

    You think Jennifer Call is going to say, oh I kept those off on purpose.

    It not only happened in Sutton but Greenfield, the fact thats its happening to Ron Paul repeaditly is more than an accident. the fact that Romney’s total always declines on recount is another smoking gun. That woman deserves criminal justice.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Again, what evidence do you have that she did it on purpose ?

  • MR GRINCH

    The evidence is that your inflicting Your Opinion on this group of readers under the guise of seeming “reasonable”.

    Your opinion that the Diebold voting machines were not hacked has almost No basis in reality.

    “The writer doesn’t address the Republican race, but the evidence would be the same. Don’t blame Diebold for the fact that your candidate didn’t do as well as you might have liked.”

    Retract this junk or your credibilty is gone.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    You are the people asking me and the rest of us to accept the idea that Hillary Clinton and Diebold engaged in a massive conspiracy to thwart the candidacies of Ron Paul and Barack Obama.

    You provide me the evidence, if it exists.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    You’re splitting hairs, Doug NWOshilltaconis. “purpose” is irrelevant. When someone crosses the centerline in their vehicle and kills someone else, does the fact that it was an accident matter? Of course not, someone was killed, someone is at fault.

    Same goes for this voting fraud. I don’t need to prove intent, this isn’t a murder trial. The mere fact that more than one precinct submitted “0” for Ron Paul and have now ADMITTED that these figures were false and incorrect indicates at the very least “human error”, and at the most intentional fraud.

    Either way, the votes were INCORRECTLY COUNTED. This means that there is NO way to ensure that there aren’t MORE errors which FAVORED other candidates.

    What part of that is so hard for you to understand, Doug? Or is it that you’re so self-righteous that being an apparent NWO shill doesn’t make you cringe?

    Admit it, you’re dead wrong on this issue. Intentional or otherwise, the votes were incorrect, nobody can verify any of the other votes as being accurate (hmmm, wonder why THAT is, Doug?), therefore, the entire process is in question by anyone who’s NOT in a BushCo induced coma.

  • fasd

    Elections sponsored by Diebold. By the way, the above article is a perfect example of ‘spin journalism’, which substitutes mindless claims for actual fact and journalistic legwork.

    Try this, Liberty Papers.

    “NH LHS Executive Ken Hajjar was convicted of Controlled Narcotics Distribution”

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=84314

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Boosh,

    Here’s a secret. There’s no such thing as a perfect election and no such thing as ensuring that every vote is counted and counted accurately. That’s true whether you’re talking about electronic voting systems or paper ballots (anyone remember Florida). As long as human beings are involved in the process, mistakes are going to be made. To demand the type of perfection you’re talking about is just absurd.

    What’s the big deal ? Ron Paul’s 30 votes in that little town amount to maybe 1/1000th of one percent of all the votes cast. If there really was a conspiracy, don’t you think it would be a little more obvious ?

    And there is a big difference between an intentional act and negligence. If some town clerk in some town in New Hampshire accidentally put the wrong number in the wrong column because he/she had been up for 24 hours straight that’s called simple negligence, not a conspiracy.

    And there’s no voting system in the world that can promise infallibility.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    fasd,

    So what ?

    What does that prove ?

    That some guy got involved with drugs, which should be legal anyway.

  • Will

    Doug, who in America wants Senator Clinton to receive the party nomination more than even her delusional supporters do?

    They want to run against HRC and are assuring the deck is stacked in her favor. Prior to the 3rd place finish in Iowa, damn near everyone assumed her candidacy was cruising a smooth ride to the party nomination.
    It makes no sense that older women suddenly rallied around Clinton…none.
    Older women, Doug, know better than to trust the likes of an HRC…they know who the more deceitful of the genders is. That is why HRC hasn’t locked down the women vote.
    Again…older women coming to her resuce…makes no sense.
    They’re the ones that dislike her the most!

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Will,

    I must say that the world you live in sounds more exciting than a Tom Clancy novel. Conspiracies inside conspiracies. Rigged elections. I hope they get the new James Bond to play the hero when the movie comes out.

    Seriously, just because it doesn’t make sense to you doesn’t mean it isn’t true.

  • MR GRINCH

    The recount will prove that your opinion (and analysis) is total JUNK. Have you noticed any posts agreeing with you?

    “You are the people asking me and the rest of us to accept the idea that Hillary Clinton and Diebold engaged in a massive conspiracy to thwart the candidacies of Ron Paul and Barack Obama.

    You provide me the evidence, if it exists.”…

    Just which “us” are You referring to Doug?
    =========================
    http://www.blackboxvoting.org/

    “In 2006, as Hajjar argued in favor of their policy to change cards during elections, I asked him about about the laws which govern chain of custody issues. His response: “I mean, I don’t pay attention to every little law. It’s just, it’s up to the Registrars. All we are is a support organization on Election Day”.

    He said he had three memory cards in the trunk of his car and, in the event they had to be used, the chain of custody issues wouldn’t matter since, “once you run the [pre-election] test deck through, you’re golden”.”

    Black Box Voting has sent out 10 freedom of information requests, called “right to know requests” in New Hampshire, and public records requests elsewhere.

    Hajjar’s conviction was in 1987, but we have asked also for complaints filed on a threat allegedly made in recent years to a New Hampshire woman, and any other reports for Hajjar or LHS owner John Silvestro.

    Until recently, LHS employees were listed on the company Web site. Now the pages identifying who programs New England voting machines have been taken down.

    We want to know.

    We want to know exactly what the secretaries of state/commonwealth know about LHS Associates.

    Did they know of Hajjar’s criminal background? If so, why’s he toting voting machine cards around in the trunk of his car in case they are “needed” in live elections, and if not, why not?

    Link to Kenneth Hajjar criminal record:
    http://www.bbvdocs.org/LHS/hajjar.png

    VOTING MACHINES – SKILLFULLY MANIPULATED – LEAVE NO EVIDENCE

    The famous “Hursti Hack” of the memory card in the voting system version used in New Hampshire preloaded the card with minus and plus votes, pass… More

  • Patrick Henry

    Examine the Johns Hopkins study of the Diebold source code or refer to any of the many other analyses done by computer and security experts, and undertake an objective review of the issue and it’s many facets, and you can prove the following

    1. Diebold machines are absolutely not secure, they are insecure in more than a dozen ways each one a major security risk that would justify not using these machines.

    2. Diebold insists these machines are secure.

    3. Diebold is a company that specializes in security products.

    4. Since they are security experts and know and understand security, they are corrupt, not incompetent.

    5. The same applies to the federal certifying agency. They know these machines are a joke security wise and claim other wise.

    6. Since Diebold and the certifying agency are guilty of conspiring to put insecure voting technology into place, it nullifies the validity of any election in which Diebold machines are used. Whether there is actual vote tampering is a moot question – we don’t know, we can’t know, we won’t ever know.

    http://www.blackboxvoting.org

    “Don’t blame Diebold for the fact that your candidate didn’t do as well as you might have liked.”

    No, I blame Diebold for engaging in a conspiracy in broad daylight to defraud the American people, conspiring to commit election fraud, and for lying about it all.

    “The election in New Hampshire is over, it’s time to move on. ”

    So long as every election is decided by whomever rigs the voting machines best, it’s time to stay on this issue. Election season or not, our country is being stolen.

    “You provide me the evidence, if it exists.”

    http://www.blackboxvoting.org, http://www.google.com, http://www.youtube.com – look for yourself. There is enough evidence publicly available to result in dozens of indictments, arrests, and trials. Many people including this author deny this evidence exists and use the label “conspiracy theorist” to dismiss anyone who points to the evidence – but they never ever disprove the evidence or even examine it superficially.

    My fellow Americans who think – thank you. I hope you all are preparing your lives with plans for land, food, water, shelter, and medicine for the looters are about to eat us alive.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    And, Will, as inconceivable as it might be to you I know plenty of Democrats here in Virginia who absolutely want Hillary as their nominee.

  • Will

    Anyone latching onto anything other than securing integrity of our democracy’s vote is wrong.
    No matter who your candidate of choice is…without integrity at the ballot…no candidate is safe from being played, or, any candidate can up and pull a fast one.

    This about gaurding the one mechanism the people have. We have to take it back…out of the hands of back room contracts and greedy self-interests that benefit but a handful of individuals.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Patrick (and Mr. Grinch of that matter),

    What specific evidence of actual fraud in New Hampshire on 1/8/08 do you have ?

    I’m guessing none.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Hooo boy, got a live one here with Doug. Secret back at you Doug, to insist that elections are done with integrity, honesty, and truthfulness is far from “absurd”. “The type of perfetion I’m’ talking about..”…You mean “accuracy”, Doug?

    I’m beginning to see your tortured logic with every additional post of yours. You are in love with mincing words, ignoring the larger picture.

    This isn’t about Ron Paul, it’s about VOTING INTEGRITY!! How DARE you attempt to dictate to the American People that “hey man, elections that are true, fair, and honest are a pipe dream, never gonna happen, so hey, sit back and let it all happen”.

    Doug, people like you are exactly what’s wrong with our country. Your tortured il-logic and pathetic attempts to “get the final word” stand in the way of what counts:

    Elections NEED to be accurate. PERIOD. When there is ADMITTED MISTAKES, INTENTIONAL OR OTHERWISE, the entire process is called into question. How can anyone who’s not unconscious even DEBATE this issue? Simple negligence? GOT IT DOUG. PLENTY OF MISTAKES. We caught a few of them RED HANDED. Now, please fill us in on all the REST of the mistakes (please list them all in an itemized list so we can ensure the votes are correct) that “don’t matter”, because, after all, it’s “absurd” to demand integrity in the American voting process. Oh, you can’t provide that list? Why’s that, Doug? Oh, because nobody has checked to see if there were more mistakes? No paper trail? Got it, Doug…

    Good Lord, wtf do you live, man? Zimbabwe? Cuba? No matter, we’re going to defeat you NWO-loving BushShills regardless. Because you apparently insist on honing in on the Ron Paul factor yet continue to ignore the real issue at hand, insisting on splitting hairs and playing word semantics speaks volumes to your incentive to continue to shove both your feet into your mouth internationally.

    Good luck with that, Lil’ Boosh.

  • MR GRINCH

    You need to quit your pitiful at this point bro.

    The recount will prove you are either wrong, foolish or an unskilled propagandist.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Boosh,

    It’s clear to me that none of you will accept any election result that doesn’t have Ron Paul in first place.

    Therefore, if he doesn’t win it means there’s fraud

    Given that, there really isn’t anything for us to discuss because the possibility for a rational discussion doesn’t exist.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Mr. Grinch,

    You mean the recount that neither Obama nor Paul have asked for ?

  • MR GRINCH

    Ron Paul should have gotten 4th or maybe 3rd, IMHO.

    Obama should have had 1st…

    Stay tuned Doug, there may be a surprise coming for you recount wise by tomorrow.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Grinch: Doug is hung up on the word game. He seems to think if it doesn’t fit the definition of “fraud” to the letter, than there’s nothing wrong at all!!

    We all know nothing could be further from the truth. There was more than one “human error” made in NH directly affecting the vote count. If we caught 2, imagine how many errors DIDN’T get caught!! Doug doesn’t care though, because “you have no evidence of fraud”. I DO have evidence at the VERY least, however, of alleged “human error”, which puts the ENTIRE ELECTION PROCESS IN QUESTION.

    Doug appears to be hung up on a few specifics:

    – Ron Paul and what Doug feels is “insignificant” amounts of votes being left out of the count (though it amounted to over 14% in one precinct)

    – Doug apparently feels that these were the only mistakes made, and that there could be no further mistakes, or larger mistakes (imagine if someone got the Billary figure wrong and transposed a 4 instead of a 2 in, say, 2937 votes).

    Doug apparently will stand to the end on his “no fraud, nothing’s wrong, let’s move on and let Dibold handle things from here out…” hit piece, because he can’t admit he’s absolutely wrong, and he’s obviously got a dislike for Ron Paul.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Boosh,

    Again you guys are the one’s alleging fraud, if you want me to change me mind then provide me real, specific evidence of the same.

    Otherwise, I’m not changing a word of what I’ve said.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Paul NWOShilltaconis, clearly by YOUR response, and your putting words in MY mouth, indeed no rational discussion can be had.

    I never said any of those assertions you indicated, but then again, you’re not a credible author and clearly have a mental block going on with Ron Paul supporters.

    My position is clear, and only someone who’s near brain-dead could mistake it and then manage to type a blatant lie about my position:

    There are admitted mistakes (I believe it’s deliberate, you don’t, so be it). Mistakes were made. Tehre is NO WAY to determine that there weren’t OTHER mistakes made. The ENTIRE PROCESS is now in question, as NOBODY can currently state without question that there are no more mistakes.

    How hard is that to understand, Doug “Lil’ Boosh” NWOShill?

    I contend that you DO understand EXACTLY what I’m saying, and that deep down you agree with it. You just can’t admit it because it negates that pathetic piece of yellow journalism you posted, you know…the one we’re all discussing, and then you’ll have to admit you have been wrong the entire time.

    Anyhow, you’re correct, there is no rational discussion with an NWO shill like yourself, and your sad attempt to derail it by telling absolute lies about MY position shines the cold hard light of truth on your sad hit piece, and places your credibility in anything you’ve written squarely in nonsenseville.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Boosh,

    Then please tell me about the foolproof voting system you’ve devised that will eliminate all possibility of human or machine error.

    Because there ain’t no such thing in existence right now.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Again you avoid the issue here and want to play word semantics with me.

    I’ve made my position clear. I simply said “there is more than one confirmed mistake, this puts the entire election into question and the results of said election are all in question and shouldn’t be taken seriously”.

    I understand why you want to put words in my mouth, and perhaps that works on whatever playground you’re used to preaching on, but it won’t work with me, and you’ll either have to answer to my REAL words, or go down in defeat knowing you were wrong all along, had to resort to putting words in my mouth, and had no relevant answer to the issue:

    The election process is tainted, whether by fraud or by simple human error. We don’t know the extent of teh errors (or fraud), therefore, the entire election process is in question and needs to be revisited.

    Unbeliveable that I’ve had to restate my position numerous times, and you STILL continue with these sad word semantics games that you’re clearly losing at.

  • Patrick Henry

    Dear Doug,

    “What specific evidence of actual fraud in New Hampshire on 1/8/08 do you have ?”

    They used Diebold machines. Diebold machines have been proven to be insecure. They claim they are secure. Since they know what secure is, and what secure isn’t, they are lying.

    Regardless of whether a single vote was tampered with the entire election is void because a fraudulent voting system designed to facilitate election fraud was used.

    You are demanding that we show you the evidence – but as many people have said, it is readily available. I can show you the evidence, but I can’t make you think. Since you have refused to investigate such serious allegations on your own, it would seem you are highly prejudiced against thinking about Diebold and it’s security flaws.

    Here is but ONE piece of the evidence. Arguably the most important evidence to come to light so far: http://avirubin.com/vote.pdf

    I searched google with “johns hopkins diebold” and that was the first link. That took ten seconds. If you aren’t willing to spend ten seconds investigating the allegations regarding Diebold that have been around for many years then I doubt you are willing to spend ten minutes or ten hours, let alone ten years, examining the mountain of evidence that we do not have elections in America anymore. Perhaps I have misjudged you – read the link I provided. I won’t do more than that – if your mind is shut then it is shut and I can’t open it.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    You are the one not understanding me.

    As I said to another poster, demanding complete accuracy is simply unrealistic. People are human and mistakes will be made. Sometimes they’ll be caught and sometimes they won’t.

    You can put safeguards in place to ensure that the mistakes aren’t so drastic that it effects the outcome, but there’s nothing that can be done to make up for the fact that human error is a fact of life in voting as in everything else.

    It’s insane to demand a recount just because some town clerk mis-transcriped one column on one form.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Patrick,

    Even conceding that the machines are insecure, what evidence do you have that they were tampered with in this specific case ?

  • Will

    Ann Arbor man plans recount of N.H. Republican primary…
    Albert Howard, would-be presidential contender from Ann Arbor, said today he has discussed a recount of the Republican vote in Tuesday’s primary in New Hampshire with the secretary of state’s office, and plans to fly to New Hampshire by the end of the day Friday to pay the required fee and start the recount.
    http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080110/NEWS06/80110061

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Doug: Since you STILL avoid MY issue and want to respond with a loaded question, I’ll continue to bury you out here in public and will play along and answer YOUR questions, though I shouldn’t, I will. Before I begin, while NO system is perfect, a system of checks and balances will eliminate the current black hole that exists swirlling around Dibold/LHS.

    – Eliminate the Dibold factor from ALL elections until they can be PROVEN to be error-free. That, after all, was the PRIMARY REASON these pieces of crap were introduced into the process (remember the “hanging chat” incident, Doug?)

    – Background checks for ALL poll workers.

    – Paper trail for EACH AND EVERY VOTE

    – Not a SINGLE vote is tallied in private. It is a public affair with check and balance systems in place (double counting by different people)

    This will eliminate MUCH of what is perceived as fraud, and will all but eliminate the type of human error we see now.

    Again, there is NO perfect solution, but for you to not only be CONTENT with the level of error we’ve seen in the PRIMARIES (not even the REAL votes yet!!), and then to stand on “you can’t prove it’s fraud” is sad and very anti-American.

    Now YOU answer a question, Doug:

    Are you comfortable with the level of error in our current system, which includes counting more than 80% of the votes by a private entity who are subject to NO oversight process and no checks and balances?

  • Patrick Henry

    “The burden, I would suggest, is on those making the allegation.”

    I agree. Too bad the FBI won’t follow up no matter how much evidence is provided to substantiate the allegations.

  • F. Jorge Boosh

    Doug said: It’s insane to demand a recount just because some town clerk mis-transcriped one column on one form.

    I respond by saying: Not only did you get it wrong (there were at LEAST TWO “mis-transcribed” count incidents, and the BOTH resulted in ZEROS for Ron Paul), but there is absolutely NO insanity in demanding a recount because there is plenty of error to show, and nobody can show or provide evidence that the REST of these votes haven’t been “mis-transcribed”.

  • Patrick Henry

    “Even conceding that the machines are insecure, what evidence do you have that they were tampered with in this specific case ?”

    They were Diebold machines.

    As I suspected, it would appear you don’t give a damn about the truth, you want to play silly little games to dance around the fact that America’s elections are being stolen.

    I used to debate a guy on a board about the death penalty. Only thing that would change his mind is an executed man being found innocent. Since you can’t reverse a conviction of a dead man, it’s not possible. There is no legal procedure to do so. There’s also a hell of an incentive for the government to NOT do that.

    What evidence do you have that the Diebold machines were secure?

  • MR GRINCH

    petition for a recount to Obama and Paul…
    http://www.gopetition.com/online/16251.html

    RECOUNT $$$
    Organized by Granny Warriors

    new update:
    We have a candidate that is willing to go to NH and file for the recount. We have paid his air fare and he is on his way as of 4 PM EST. He has until tomorrow to file.

    We will be sending him the money as he needs it to assure us and you that each district or precinct is counted plus more funds are needed to complete the process.
    http://www.grannywarrior.com/

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Patrick & Boosh,

    It’s obvious that we come from totally different worldviews.

    You seem to see conspiracies around every corner. I don’t.

    There is no evidence of voter fraud in New Hampshire, plain and simple. Go ahead and demand a recount because a few mistakes were made if you want. The rest of us will concentrate on the rest of the race for the White House.

  • Patrick Henry

    “There is no evidence of voter fraud in New Hampshire, plain and simple. Go ahead and demand a recount because a few mistakes were made if you want. The rest of us will concentrate on the rest of the race for the White House.”

    Did you read the link I gave you?

    Apparently not.

    Oedipus destroyed his own eyes upon learning he had killed his father and slept with his mother.

    What did you do to make you destroy your own mind?

  • Patrick Henry

    “You seem to see conspiracies around every corner. I don’t.”

    No, I see conspiracies when I spend many months researching every possible source and apply stringent standards for burden of proof, logic, reason, truth, etc.

    I not merely look – I see because I think.

  • MR GRINCH
  • Patrick Henry

    “Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.”

    Patrick Henry voted against the Constitution. His objections to the Constitution have been validated by the centuries of usurpation of power by government.

    Not only did he fight against the British tyranny, he took the even braver stance and fought against the American tyranny. This is why I use his name as a moniker – Patrick Henry was a brave man of principle.

    You refuse to even examine or question the nationwide election conspiracy. It doesn’t appear you will ever join the fight against it.

    How is that being a heir to the legacy of Patrick Henry? Seems to me that’s a bit more Benedict Arnold – you claim to be a patriot yet you are a man of party, not principle, defending one of the worst crimes committed by our government.

  • Patrick Henry

    I just got an email response from Albert Howard:

    “We are about to change history. Donations are accepted on our website!

    Albert Howard”

    http://alberthoward.org/default.aspx

    Howard is a Republican candidate who is most likely going to force a recount. He ended up with 54 or so votes, but he’s curious as at one point he had 150 or so.

    He isn’t going to win no matter what – but everyone loses with election fraud.

  • eric

    Since you like to use labels, let’s give you one, and I choose Idiotite.

    An Idiotite is someone that accepts anything and everything, no matter if there is evidence or not. They believe this “War on Terror” is humane, righteous, and by golly in America’s best interest. Idiotites also believe, the ‘Govment’ is both law abiding and representative of the American populace. If you question Govment, Idiotites believe in places like Guantanamo or other secret prisons for you where you will most likely be tortured and released 6 years later with no charges pending.

    Idiotites are immune to reason. They do not believe in it. Idiotites, rather stay scared all the time. Scared of muslims, scared of terror, and scared of themselves when they do any soul searching. Idiotites do things for money and money only. Most have sold their souls to the devil, and all are completely oblivious to morality, introspection, and empathy. They are self-loathing, scapegoat providing, egotistical trash that not only hurts America, but the human race.

    I really should have gone into Journalism. I could have a job spreading BS on a page and call it news! Wake up!

  • eric

    by the way.

    THEY ARE STEALING THE ELECTION!!!!

    …AGAIN!

  • http://www.ricksincere.com Rick Sincere

    Speaking as an election official (I serve on the Electoral Board for the City of Charlottesville, Virginia), I can say without fear of contradiction that no matter where one votes, no matter what voting system is used (hand-counted paper ballots, optical scan machines, lever machines, etc.) there are going to be errors on election night that are corrected the next day.

    That is why every state has some kind of procedure — we call it a “canvass” in Virginia — in which all of the vote totals from election day are examined, checked and rechecked, before official results are certified and released.

    Though we live in an instantaneous world — where you can download video of “30 Rock” at your leisure from the NBC web site, rather than wait until Thursday night at 8:30 — voting results are not (contrary to popular belief) reported instantaneously and accurately. There are procedures in place to ensure the accuracy of results, and those procedures take time.

    Errors occur on election day, and those errors are corrected before the results of the election are certified. There is no “fraud” or “conspiracy” involved. Instead, there is diligence and dedication on the part of election officials who work hard all year round to make sure that election day runs smoothly and confidently, and that all results are reported accurately once they have been verified.

    Those who have doubts about the integrity of the process should volunteer to work as election judges or poll workers, so they can see the process from the inside.

  • http://www.wcnet.org/~jamoore James Moore

    I’ll tell you what’s unacceptable. Journalists calling the race for a candidate with between only 2 and 10 percent of the vote being recorded. Candidates that concede a race based on that same thing. How does the media get to call a race before it’s started?

    And you ask why people don’t trust the vote? I’d lay odds that hundreds of thousands of Americans don’t vote because they don’t believe it matters. Many of those will tell you one of two things, they don’t care, or the race is fixed anyway so why bother. Of those that say they don’t care, I’d bet most of them don’t care because they think they can’t trust the vote anyway – that they don’t matter. Sad isn’t it?

  • http://dangerouslyidealistic.blogspot.com/ UCrawford

    I’m going to post one comment on the accusations of vote-rigging by the Paulestinians, then I’m abstaining from any further debate on this topic, mainly because I consider it a colossal waste of time and energy.

    I can’t help but notice that you’re not hearing most of these accusations of vote rigging on the Republican side from the Guiliani camp, or the Romney camp, or even the Duncan Hunter camp (all of whom have just as much reason to bitch if there was vote tampering going on)…you’re hearing most of them coming from the Ron Paul supporters. These accusations were trotted out in Iowa, where Ron Paul didn’t post numbers in double digits in the scientific polls before the caucus (and no, that doesn’t include the bullshit Zogby polls which are about as accurate as a horoscope), they’re being trotted out about a state where he didn’t win the scientific polls before the primary (to say nothing of the newsletter scandal that broke that probably had some negative effect on voters’ decisions), and they’ll probably be trotted out about the results in every state where Ron Paul campaigns in during this primary season, even if there’s no indication whatsoever from the scientific polls that Ron Paul had any voter support in those states at all.

    Unless you’ve got actual, physical proof that the voting machines were tampered with or that the vote counts were maliciously manipulated (and none of this “the machines could possibly be hacked” crap because that’s not proof, that’s speculation) this is nothing but a conspiracy theory from a bunch of bitter people who are looking to externalize blame because they can’t accept the fact that their candidate lost because the majority of voters simply weren’t willing to cast a ballot for Ron Paul…probably because the Paul campaign did a shitty job of prepping the state (a hypothesis clearly demonstrated by that godawful campaign ad with all the bearded rubes).

    Absent proof, the vote tampering allegations are nothing but a hypothetical conspiracy…an exceptionally stupid and pathetic one. Absent proof, the people who publicly back this hypothesis are proving themselves to be stupid and pathetic. Absent proof, they make their candidate look stupid and pathetic. So if you have any intention of getting your candidate elected (which is the point of the primary) either present actual, definitive proof that vote tampering went on or shut the fuck up about it and get on with the race, because believe it or not, the world does not revolve around Ron Paul nor does it owe any of you a fucking break. So get a grip.

  • Chris

    “Liberty Papers”??? Fuck you.

  • http://www.wcnet.org/~jamoore James Moore

    To Rick Sincere, do you not see that the media creates momentum, and that even if there are mistakes, we the people don’t hear about them unless we dig, dig, dig? Why have recent close elections, both primary and final, been called before they are certified? Did the momentum factor help George Bush win Florida, and Ohio in the last two elections, or not? People were actually caught in both those elections committing vote fraud, and some evidence points to the idea that our elections have indeed been stolen. Errors or deliberate falsification, either way when we have a media and political establishment that pushes instantaneous results at us before they’re certified, how can you be surprised that people are suspicious?

  • http://www.wcnet.org/~jamoore James Moore

    One last comment, to UCrawford.
    You may not have heard the other candidates complain mostly because they can’t point to any specific errors that affected their candidacy. Ron Paul got 31 votes in one county that was recorded as 0. It likely STILL would be recorded as 0 if someone didn’t have the evidence to prove this was wrong and pushed the county Republican in charge of reporting the totals for an answer. “Human Error.” Fair enough, I can accept that. What I can’t accept is such carelessness could so easily have gone unchecked. If people don’t speak up, we deserve what we get. Some of us are still not willing to give up our rights as soverign citizens so easily.

  • Patrick Henry

    “Those who have doubts about the integrity of the process should volunteer to work as election judges or poll workers, so they can see the process from the inside.”

    Those who have faith in our election system should spend a year investigating the security of the election system.

  • http://www.prisonplanet.tv Mark Manning

    “Well That Didn’t Take Long — New Hampshire Losers Allege Voter Fraud”
    ——————————-
    Americans Are The Ultimate Losers and that includes the brainy author of said title…
    Ron Paul received zero votes in 2 different New Hampshire towns, the town of Sutton and the town of Greenville….”ooops, human error, we’re sorry”
    Not Quite.
    Childish excuses like this are out right lies mainly because the establishment is scared to death of Ron Paul. The establishment relish the thought of civil unrest and violent reaction from “we the people” … LOOK OUT !!! Laughing criminals in high places may force the inevitable….

  • JW

    24-48 hours and this story breaks. Too many unanswered questions and the more people I talk to who have seen some of the data, the more this thing keeps growing.

    Not a conspiracy theory and the worst thing that comes out of all this is that we know what parameters are put into place to make sure our votes really get counted.

    How can anyone argue against that? If there’s nothing to hide, then let’s see all the cards on the table. . . simple as that.

  • Patrick Henry

    “Unless you’ve got actual, physical proof that the voting machines were tampered with or that the vote counts were maliciously manipulated (and none of this “the machines could possibly be hacked” crap because that’s not proof, that’s speculation)”

    The source code was accidentally leaked to the public on Diebold’s web page – yet another example of their total lack of security. The machines themselves can and have been purchased. Both the source code and the machines have been tested by a number of computer and security experts. The conclusions and the details of how these machines work are now public knowledge.

    If you people who claim these machines are secure were to examine how they function I think you would change your mind. You demand evidence, and then refuse to consider the evidence submitted to you.

    Your request is difficult to impossible to fulfill. Due to the design of these machines it is possible to rig them multiple ways without leaving any physical evidence. Again – DUE TO THE DESIGN OF DIEBOLD MACHINES IT IS POSSIBLE TO RIG THEM IN MULTIPLE WAYS WITHOUT LEAVING ANY PHYSICAL EVIDENCE!!!

    It is not speculation – there is enough evidence in the public sphere for indictments, arrests, trials, convictions, and sentencing the criminals who are stealing America’s elections. The evidence continues to accumulate as the investigation continues. Unfortunately no law enforcement or other government agency with their sweeping powers is going to dare to touch this issue so it is an investigation led by the citizens of America.

    The government usurped the general police powers that once belonged to the free individual American citizen, and they have used those powers along with the rest of their authority to disguise their criminal actions so that the once free and once proud American would ardently defend their own victimizers.

    Now it is time for all good American citizens to fulfill their civic duties. It is time to learn the law, it is time to uphold the law. It is time to hold criminals accountable for their actions. This is the right and the duty of every single American citizen.

    “Absent proof, the vote tampering allegations are nothing but a hypothetical conspiracy…an exceptionally stupid and pathetic one.”

    You are charged with upholding the law. As a citizen and a patriot you are obligated to investigate the charges put forth and to examine the evidence. Instead you summarily dismiss any proof, any evidence, no matter how damning it may be. What excuse do you have for this cowardly refusal to consider the evidence thousands of your fellow Americans are pointing to that further indicts the very same government you surely must know is corrupt?

    “People constantly speak of the government doing this or that, as they might speak of God doing it. But the government is really nothing but a group of men, and usually they are very inferior men. They may have some better man working for them, but they themselves are seldom worthy of any respect. H.L. Mencken”

    Another great quote from the top of this page. You defenders of Diebold and the fraudulent election systems in this country, what gives you this blind faith in the character of our government to trust that they will run the elections honestly and securely? What evidence do you have that these men are worthy of respect, trust, and unquestioning unshakable faith?

  • Patrick Henry

    Addendum: The Diebold machines used in New Hampshire should leave only 1 (one) means of physical evidence of tampering – the paper ballot.

    The only way to prove or disprove their accuracy for the election there must be a recount. I want a recount, even though I highly doubt the candidate I support (Dr. Paul) won. I just want to know what the actual results were.

    Yet the author of the above article said we shouldn’t look at the evidence -we should just move on.

    Y’all demand evidence, but you don’t want see it.

    What are you afraid of?

  • http://www.wcnet.org/~jamoore James Moore

    That’s all I’m asking as well. To be able to be sure there are no “mistakes,” there should be a hand-verified recount, verified on camera. I’m also a Paul supporter that is highly doubtful my man has much to gain however, a recount could improve Paul’s standing vs Giulani in NH.

  • hoaxbuster

    Doug Mataconis = Fraud.

  • http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/ Mick Russom

    Democracy is done.

    http://itpolicy.princeton.edu/voting/

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNYA5ggwG84

    This is Princeton University, not some wingnut moonbat conspiracy club.

  • http://www.prisonplanet.tv Mark Manning

    Voting fraud is just another way for the enemy to exclaim:
    “we own your ass, what are you going to do about it ?”
    What we’re witnessing in this particular New Hampshire case is the incredible HUGE criminal power behind that witch Hillary Clinton and the likes. This is the same sovereign killing power that use stealth to achieve anti-constitutional agendas.

    Via controlled American media, these rats in the night have total control over the entire election process….

    Powerful people like this slither and lurk behind the political scene like cockroaches, they’ve done it for decades, swaying political opinion by undermining the gift to vote fair in a free society….
    If we, as a people, continue to allow blatant corruption, we’ll get what we deserve…..

    http://www.prisonplanet.tv
    *

  • william jenkins

    The paper ballots were counted by diebold machines 80% of the time. While it’s true that 50% of the towns count by hand, it’s also true that 80% of the vote is counted by machine. The larger precincts use the Diebold machines.

  • uhm
  • 1inDistrict14

    There is nothing new under the sun or in election fraud.

    From the New York Times, September 6, 1898
    Headline: ARKANSAS BALLOT BOX STOLEN

    Little Rock, ARK

    “Election returns are extrememly slow coming in. The vote throughout the state was light. A report from Eastern Township, Pulaski County, states the Republicans carried that township and that the ballot box was carried away by the Democrats and has not been heard of since.”

    If that was in 1898 and it happened then…why on earth would anyone today not believe Diebold could be the high-tech version of carrying away the ballot box?

    Geez Louise, I’ve got an article from a 1969 newspaper about my great, great grandfather that protected his precinct’s ballot box from the 1800’s through the depression years and walked it 40 miles to the county courthouse “stopping along the way to spend the night with his friend, the Sherrif Caudle…they appreciated him because the elections would always go the right way”.

  • Bob

    A recount will find nothing of substance and is a waste of time and resources. I might still be in favor of a recount if I thought it would silence the tin hatters. Sadly, I’ve already been told by more than 1 tin hatter that finding nothing doesn’t prove that the election was fair it just means that the ballots were switched.

  • http://www.atlasblogged.com Wulf

    Doug, you do a wonderful service here. Your article is excellent, and you maintain fantastic civility in the face of the tone of many of these comments.

  • MR GRINCH

    Doug as you have no doubt heard the recount is on.
    No matter what your insane response.

    Having Fair Elections Is Good, not Bad!!!!!

    Imagine a technique of creating an environment where everyone self censors their speech and thoughts to suit the dominant political paradigm……

    Stalin did it He called it political correctness.

    In China, neighbors and family members scorn and turn each other over to the authorities for “anti social behavior”,(You know, practicing a religion, having a child, free thought) which of course can include having a child or anything else, including life and liberty, taken away by the state.

    The one child policy in China started out as a voluntary or a fine based offense. Now of course they have forced abortions. (executions,organ selling, slave labor camps)

    The kind of mental contortion required to write an article or I should say justify an article like this is a result of a long term scientific indoctrination,(assuming your not NSA) http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/13/AR2006021301897.html the desired end result is very similar to the Chinese system.

    In this context the elections being rigged is a really big deal. I dont want to be a serf and thats where were all going if we dont change course NOW.

    NO MORE ELECTION FRAUD!!!!

    Doug is thinking just the way hes been conditioned to.

    http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/nbbw.cgi?Gw=political+correctness

    What Is Political Correctness?
    Political Correctness (PC) is the communal tyranny that erupted in the 1980s. It was a spontaneous declaration that particular ideas, expressions and behaviour, which were then legal, should be forbidden by law, and people who transgressed should be punished. (see Newspeak) It started with a few voices but grew in popularity until it became unwritten and written law within the community. With those who were publicly declared as being not politically correct becoming the object of persecution by the mob, if not prosecution by the state…from http://www.ourcivilisation.com/pc.htm

    Also look into sensitivity training.

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Mr. Grinch,

    Are you talking about the recount demanded by Dennis Kucinich (D., Alpha Centauri), or the one demanded by the guy who thinks he talks to angels ?

  • MR GRINCH

    Both.

  • Pingback: Blog @ MoreWhat.com » Blog Archive » Was the New Hampshire Primary Rigged?()

  • http://www.belowthebeltway.com Doug Mataconis

    Mr. Grinch,

    Okay, now I understand where all this nonsense is coming from.

  • MR GRINCH

    http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/4/4/121115.shtml

    Political Correctness: The Scourge of Our Times

    Agustin Blazquez with the collaboration of Jaums Sutton
    Monday, April 8, 2002

    Does anyone know the origins of Political Correctness? Who originally developed it and what was its purpose?

    I looked it up. It was developed at the Institute for Social Research in Frankfurt, Germany, which was founded in 1923 and came to be known as the “Frankfurt School.” It was a group of thinkers who pulled together to find a solution to the biggest problem facing the implementers of communism in Russia.

    The problem? Why wasn’t communism spreading?

    Their answer? Because Western Civilization was in its way.

    What was the problem with Western Civilization? Its belief in the individual, that an individual could develop valid ideas. At the root of communism was the theory that all valid ideas come from the effect of the social group of the masses. The individual is nothing.

    And they believed that the only way for communism to advance was to help (or force, if necessary) Western Civilization to destroy itself. How to do that? Undermine its foundations by chipping away at the rights of those annoying individuals.

    One way to do that? Change their speech and thought patterns by spreading the idea that vocalizing your beliefs is disrespectful to others and must be avoided to make up for past inequities and injustices.

    And call it something that sounds positive: “Political Correctness.”

    Inspired by the brand new communist technique, Mao, in the 1930s, wrote an article on the “correct” handling of contradictions among the people. “Sensitive training” – sound familiar? – and speech codes were born.

    In 1935, after Hitler came to power, the Frankfurt School moved to New York City, where they continued their work by translating Marxism from economic to cultural terms using Sigmund Freud’s psychological conditioning mechanisms to get Americans to buy into Political Correctness. In 1941, they moved to California to spread their wings.

    But Political Correctness remains just what it was intended to be: a sophisticated and dangerous form of censorship and oppression, imposed upon the citizenry with the ultimate goal of manipulating, brainwashing and destroying our society.

    PC Cuba

    My first conscious exposure to Political Correctness was in 1959 – the first year of Castro’s revolution in Cuba – while attending an indoctrination session at a neighborhood elementary school in Havana. There I learned for the first time of the claimed superiority of life in the Soviet Union vs. the U.S.

    There I also learned that the word “compañero” (filtered version of the communist “comrade” – Fidel was denying his communist preferences) was the correct way to refer to the other members of the new Cuban society-in-the-making.

    Mr., Mrs. and Miss were no longer acceptable, and their further use could reveal that you were not a Fidelista. Since repression and violations of human rights came roaring in right behind Castro’s sweep down from the mountains in 1959, objection or rejection of Fidel Castro’s revolution would (and still will) land you in a lot of trouble. You could easily lose your life in those summary executions at La Cabaña prison under the direction of Che Guevara.

    But don’t worry about Che. Che was later transformed and cleansed by the masters of Political Correctness. His likeness became a revered icon of the far left, with T-shirts and posters still adorning the campuses of America.

    The same techniques were used to cleanse one of today’s “heroes,” Mumia Abu-Jamal (even if he was convicted, by overwhelming evidence, of killing a cop).

    And under the pervasive guidance of Political Correctness that took hold from elementary school to university, from the media to the arts, from the country fields to factories and offices, Cubans learned to say what it was safe to say. Always in line with the overpowering state. Always following the dictums of the only political party left: the Communist Party.

    The self-censorship resulting from Political Correctness easily trampled freedom of speech. Political Correctness has succeeded in Cuba by creating a uniform political discourse that has lasted for 43 years.

    Political Correctness has given the state (Castro) complete control of speech. That is the main reason why the U.S. media cannot extract the truth of what Cubans really feel when they interview regular citizens and deceptively present their comments as valid to the American public.

    The same was true in the former Soviet Union and the former satellite countries. The same continues in the remaining communist world.

    It’s nothing new. The U.S. media must know that, so why don’t they openly report that fact instead of misleading the public? Perhaps that is the reason why the American people are so uneducated about the Cuban tragedy and acted regrettably during the Elian Gonzalez affair.

    The PC U.S.

    With profound dismay, I have seen how the scourge of Political Correctness has taken hold in the U.S. It is very well entrenched in our educational system, at scientific, religious and community levels, the media, the workplace and even our government.

    It is changing the American society from within, and the citizens of this nation are increasingly censoring themselves and losing their freedom of speech out of fear of Political Correctness repression.

    It is the nature of Western Civilization to be civilized – respectful of others and concerned with correcting injustices. We don’t need Political Correctness to make us think we are not civilized on our own and must have our thoughts and words restricted.

    In December 2001, in Kensington, Md., an annual firefighters Santa Claus festivity to light the Christmas tree was objected to by two families. The city council, in the name of Political Correctness, voted to ban Santa from the parade. Fortunately, due to citizen outcry, the decision was reversed in the end and many people protested by dressing up as Santa.

    Logically and respectfully, how can one person’s benign icon be objectionable to the point of banishment? Offer to add other people’s icons. Make it a broader celebration. That’s the Perfectly Correct American way.

    The rulers of Political Correctness reach absurd levels when they refer to the betrayal of America by the spies Julius and Ethel Rosenberg – executed in 1953 – as “non-traditional patriotism”!

    We see shameful situations created in our schools and universities in America that have fallen prey to Political Correctness. Some professors, students and publications are being attacked for expressing a point of view that differs from that imposed by a fanatical far left, under the guise of Political Correctness.

    In schools and workplaces we see that “diversity” has degenerated into reverse discrimination, where often the less qualified are admitted and the incompetent cannot be fired. We have seen characters like Rev. Jesse Jackson shamelessly blackmailing and threatening to boycott entire corporations if they don’t hire those selected by him or simply make “donations” to his organizations.

    The Double Standard Emerges

    Our Constitution requires the separation of church and state, which has always discouraged our public education system from teaching religion. However, in December 2001, while Christmas cards, symbols and decorations were being objected to for the first time in American public schools in Georgia, Maryland, Pennsylvania, Massachusetts, Minnesota and Oregon, in an elementary school in Texas, a girl was allowed to give to her classmates an overview and show a video about her Muslim religion.

    And in January 2002, a public middle school in San Luis Obispo, Calif., had its students pretend to be warriors fighting for Islam. Another school near Oakland, Calif., also encouraged 125 seventh-grade students to dress up in Muslim robes for a three-week course on Islam.

    This arbitrary double standard was applied in the name of Political Correctness following the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

    According to Ellen Sorokin’s “No Founding Fathers?” published by the Washington Times on its front page on Jan. 28, 2002, even our Founding Fathers have fallen victim to the travesty. The article says of the New Jersey Department of Education’s history standards,

    “The latest revisions to the state standards have disappointed educators across the country, who said the board’s exclusion of the Founding Fathers’ names is ‘Political Correctness to the nth degree.’ ”

    Sorokin points out that “the standards specifically note that students should identify slavery, the Holocaust and modern Iraq as examples in which ‘people have behaved in cruel and inhumane ways.’ ” Conveniently, communism is absent from that short list.

    In another article by Sorokin, published by the Washington Times on March 10, “Report Blames Anti-Americanism on College Teachers,” she presents two examples of upcoming courses for next spring and fall. They are ” ‘The Sexuality of Terrorism’ at University of California at Hayward; and ‘Terrorism and the Politics of Knowledge’ at UCLA, a class that, according to its course description, examines ‘America’s record of imperialistic adventurism.’ ”

    Recently, a historic photograph of the New York firefighters raising the American flag over the ruins of the World Trade Center was going to be made into a sculpture as a memorial.

    But history’s revisionists used Political Correctness to dictate that other minority faces replace some of the faces in the historical photograph! Fortunately, in the end that didn’t fly either, due to the outcry of firefighters and the public.

    The Goal of the PC Dictators

    For people with the background and firsthand experience of living inside a totalitarian communist society, the tilt and goal of the dictators of Political Correctness in America are obvious.

    The beneficiaries in the end will be the fanatic believers in the totalitarian state, who, in spite of the dismal failure of communism and the 100 million people exterminated pursuing that criminal system, have not given up.

    Political and religious fanatics, as demonstrated by the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and the subsequent war in Afghanistan, are extremely dangerous in today’s world.

    All citizens who cherish liberty must reject the scourge of Political Correctness. Freedom of speech must be preserved in America if we are to continue to be free.

    Let’s say it: Castro is not a ‘president,’ as the U.S. media’s Political Correctness calls him. Castro has not been democratically elected to anything in Cuba. The correct word to define him is ‘tyrant.’ He is not just a ‘leader,’ as the U.S. media also calls him. He is more of a criminal Mafioso-type character.

    Why criminal? Because he has caused the deaths of more than 100,000 Cubans. Thousands have died through his support of guerrillas in Central and South America. Thousands of blacks were killed by Castro’s soldiers in Africa. Castro in the 1980s introduced the use of bacteriological weapons to kill blacks in Angola.

    How many thousands have died in America as a result of his drug trafficking into the U.S.? How many thousands have died all over the world due to terrorists trained in Castro’s Cuba?

    Former Soviet colonel Ken Alibek, who defected to America, was once in charge of the Soviet Union’s production of biological weapons. In Alibek’s 1999 book, “Biohazard,” he revealed that with the help of the Soviet Union, in the 1980s Cuba created laboratories to produce chemical and bacteriological weapons of mass destruction – just 90 miles from U.S. shores.

    The information about Castro’s involvement with bacteriological weapons also comes from various independent sources. We must not forget either that Cuba is on the U.S. State Department’s list of terrorist nations.

    Why Mafioso? Well, Castro is like an untouchable godfather, surrounded by bodyguards and thugs and a private army of about 40,000 soldiers for his personal protection (roughly the size of the entire army of Cuba prior to 1959).

    He stole foreign and national properties in Cuba. He has become one of the richest men in the world, according to Forbes magazine. He has created a despotic and corrupt elite to exploit the Cuban people and keep himself in power. He has made the Cuban people hostages and slaves of his corrupt regime.

    The U.S. media do not call Al Capone “the former leader” of the Italian Mafia. Why the double standard with Fidel and other far-left regimes? The answer can be traced to where the sympathies lie – with the elite dictating Political Correctness in America.

    It’s one thing is to be educated, considerate, polite and have good manners, and another to be forced to self-censor and say things that are totally incorrect in order to comply with the arbitrary dictums of a deceiving and fanatical far-left agenda.

    Let’s preserve our freedom and say NO to the scourge of Political Correctness.

    © 2002 ABIP

  • MR GRINCH

    I didnt post that but I did post this…..
    http://digg.com/2008_us_elections/Well_That_Didn_t_Take_Long_N_H_Losers_Allege_Vote_Fraud

    I didnt just post it there but I did post this ridiculous propaganda, and called it a slave training manual.

  • http://www.infowars.com Mike

    *
    MR. Grinch,

    Go back to sleep …

    Americans are totally sick of sheep brained aye holes like you…..
    *

  • Todd Campbell

    ‘…It’s not who votes that counts….It’s who counts the votes that counts….’ Joseph Vissarionovich Jugashvili (AKA Josef Stalin)

  • Pingback: Below The Beltway » Blog Archive » The Revenge Of The Paul-Bots()