I don’t believe it would have any impact on safety. I’ve never seen a piece of paper save somebody in an accident; seat belts do. I don’t believe that a piece of paper actually makes somebody a better driver; The cowardly lion was just as brave before he got the paper from Oz as after, He proved himself brave in helping his friends.

People with driving experience in another country are just as good at driving on either side of the border.

The International norm is that somebody from another country gets a license in that country, they can also apply for an international license. The license is valid for the US. Mexico also works this way in that you can drive there with a US license but can not get a Mexican license.

It’s not a small sample size. If anything, they had to specifically pick the worst offenders from a large pool of possibilities. BTW. In our local schools and neighborhoods the gangs have names like “El Nortes”, “MS-13″ (El Salvador) and “Mexican Mafia”. I’ll note that these are not German immigrant gangs.

One more thing, when I dial up the local govt. agencies I’m not asked to press 1 for English and 2 for Gaelic. Nor are all of my local schools clamoring for teachers who speak Swedish and Italian for their whining parents who demand bi-lingual education. You’ll notice that they only want bi-lingual education when the other language is Spanish and not something far more useful for our students such as Mandarin or Cantonese.

Also,

Wages in lower skilled jobs have been declining.

Not below minimum wage, although it could be argued that since minimum wage jobs are essentially those for people with no skills, it’s the minimum wage workers who are stealing from the economy and not the illegal immigrants. The illegal immigrants are being paid for what their labor is worth to their employer…the local workers are being paid what the government is forcing the employer to pay.

A shortage of labor would mean rising wages for these jobs.

It would also mean rising prices for the goods and services that labor produces. If you want me to side with local help, arguing that it’s okay for them to dig deeper in my pocket isn’t going to get you much sympathy.

The only reason these wages would continue to fall year over year is because of an oversupply of labor.

So what? It keeps prices on consumer goods lower. Frankly, when I go out to buy a lamp for my house, I only care how affordable the lamp for the utility it provides me…I don’t give a shit about how much the workers were paid to build it because I assume they aren’t really thinking much about my finances. I assume that they’re paid enough to convince them to keep working for their employer, otherwise the lamp wouldn’t be there to buy.

Illegal aliens can exist on these lower wages by not paying taxes and consuming other services in the society free of charge.

Illegal immigrants often pay taxes:

http://www.reason.org/commentaries/dalmia_20060501.shtml

As for immigrants sponging off our welfare, if you get rid of the welfare for everyone it won’t really be a problem, will it? Americans aren’t any more entitled to it than immigrants are because it’s still theft of my tax dollars.

This means essentially that lower-skilled American workers are being pushed out of the market and illegal labor is filling the gap.

Then the lower-skilled workers are being overpaid for the services they provide and the market’s finally caught on. So what?

Doug doesn’t seem to grasp the basic law of economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

He understands it just fine. The lower-skilled workers were benefiting from a system that overpaid them for what they provide (a free lunch) and now they’re paying for it. In case you miss the point, that’s basic economics.

And again it’s painfully obvious that Doug doesn’t live anywhere where a massive illegal alien population exists.

I do, it’s great. I once hired one (I think) to mow my lawn. He did a great job and I didn’t have to suffer in 100 degree heat. He also charged less than American companies to do the same work (in less time, actually). Great guy…if I ever decide to quit mowing again I’ll definitely hire him.

You can’t have open borders and a welfare state as the famous Milton Friedman stated.

You’re right on that point…and if I have to choose one that needs to go I choose that the welfare state gets the axe. Hell, that’s part of the reason I want open immigration, because it’s the best way to kill the welfare state.

Finally, culture matters.

Ah…

The cultural impacts of massive immigration are starting to show in many areas. Multi-culturalists think the world will somehow just get along, but the reality is that humans just aren’t wired that way.

I’ve traveled around the world and I never seem to have that problem. Mainly because I try to respect their cultures and not shit on them. Perhaps the problem you’re talking about is one that’s limited to yourself and the people you associate with.

Humans actually get mad when the see a large foreign population moving in and taking up their resources.

Not me…sounds like a “you” problem again. And a self-inflicted and rather racist “you” problem at that. Which is your cross to bear, and not anyone else’s.

They get even more mad when this population demands more free services.

Get rid of “free” services for everyone and it won’t be an issue. They’re just demanding to be treated like everyone else. We’re the ones who set the example that thievery through taxation and welfare is okay, so if you’ve got a problem with immigrants and welfare look to yourself first.

And, oddly enough, the get really furious when same foreign population begins demanding everything in their own language and anyone who speaks out is a racist.

Same argument was raised about the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, the Polish, the Germans and any other substantial non-English speaking immigrant group you’d care to name. And yet we’re still all speaking English. So I don’t consider Hispanics to be any kind of threat.

The FBI most wanted list for murder is over 50% hispanic.

Wow, 44 out of 72 people arbitrarily chosen by the government on a list of targeted individuals happen to be Hispanic. I wonder if that’s really reflective of societal crime statistics at-large or if you’re simply some jackass who doesn’t understand the phrase “small sample size”. Of course only 28 of those people were actually non-citizens from Mexico, which indicates you didn’t do much analysis beyond counting the Hispanic-sounding names, and only four of those were listed as illegal immigrants which kind of shoots your stupid half-assed “theory” full of holes.

One more thing Mr. Multi-Culturalist idealist. Illegal immigrants cause loads of crime. Yes, it’s true. Mexico is a failed nation state and has lots of violent criminals. They come up to the US to cause problems. The FBI most wanted list for murder is over 50% hispanic. How odd that so many of these upstanding citizens should end up there. I guess we’re just being mean old racists:

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/fugitives/vc/murders/vc_murders.htm

Since when did it become a crime for a country to secure its borders and make sure the people coming in are people that can actually contribute to our society instead of being parasites and felons?

I think it’s mostly nonsense.”

No it’s not. Wages in lower skilled jobs have been declining. A shortage of labor would mean rising wages for these jobs. The only reason these wages would continue to fall year over year is because of an oversupply of labor. Illegal aliens can exist on these lower wages by not paying taxes and consuming other services in the society free of charge. This means essentially that lower-skilled American workers are being pushed out of the market and illegal labor is filling the gap. Even worse, the average citizen is subsidizing the companies that pay these lower wages through their local, state and federal taxes.

Doug doesn’t seem to grasp the basic law of economics: There is no such thing as a free lunch.

And again it’s painfully obvious that Doug doesn’t live anywhere where a massive illegal alien population exists. If he did he wouldn’t be harping on about all this open borders nonsense. You can’t have open borders and a welfare state as the famous Milton Friedman stated.

Finally, culture matters. The cultural impacts of massive immigration are starting to show in many areas. Multi-culturalists think the world will somehow just get along, but the reality is that humans just aren’t wired that way. Humans actually get mad when the see a large foreign population moving in and taking up their resources. They get even more mad when this population demands more free services. And, oddly enough, the get really furious when same foreign population begins demanding everything in their own language and anyone who speaks out is a racist.

What is your take on those who feel that illegal immigration infringes upon employment opportunities for lower-skilled U.S.-born (or naturalized) workers?

I think it’s mostly nonsense.

Also, what are your views on Lou Dobbs’ illegal immigration agenda?

I think they’re mostly nonsense.

Also, what are your views on Lou Dobbs’ illegal immigration agenda?

Many people who like to argue immigration somehow “hurting” America are clueless to the concept of “globalism”, which has been happening & would happen anyways with or without America. (http://www.newamerica.net/publications/articles/2008/waving_goodbye_hegemony_6604)

“Public Schools today promote white collar careers and Tech schools are for flunkies. Is it no wonder we have a shortage of welders, for example? Everyone wants to make 50K right out of college.” – Amyz (I second this)

The paranoia that immigration will dissolve the USA’s sovereignty is comical; but I do agree with Tan’s point concerning automatic citizenship.

Betty, Ricky; would you both like to also point to dark matter as being the source of all the universe’s problems?

You also haven’t had the pleasure, obviously, of living in a area with a large number of illegal aliens. Not only do many of them not care about getting a license, they also feel insurance is also optional because many can’t afford it and just don’t care. Instead they’d rather push the costs off onto everyone else while making hit and run accidents go through the roof.

Then there is the issue of overcrowded schools, hospitals, gangs in schools, large number of violent criminals who are illegal, low-level ethnic cleansing of blacks in some neighborhoods, etc. The benefits of multi-culturalism are just wondrous.

Illegal immigration is really bad news. Many of these folks simply don’t share our culture or heritage of freedom, liberty and the idea that govt. doesn’t solve all our problems. If you think socialism/collectivism is bad now, just move to an area with a large latin american community and see who they idolize in their parades and media.

Open borders advocates are just delusional. Having lived in a border state for years I can tell you simply that Mexico is using the US as their welfare system. We’re not helping the average Mexican citizen with our policies. We should focus on getting Mexico to change how they conduct themselves and not allow them to push their poverty North to take pressure off of their corrupt politicians.

ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL.

Because, of course, all laws are just

Sieg Heil !