Why do I owe them any respect? I don’t respect the mafia’s hitmen.

Well put.

America can do better than that.

I think you’re putting words into the mouth of Mr. Pulcinella. He’s not suggesting that we start calling the troops ‘baby-killers’ and spitting on them. He’s simply saying, as I understand his comments, that we troops don’t deserve any more respect that the next person. There is a difference between giving a person respect, not giving a person undeserved respect, and disrespecting a person. He’s choosing to do the second of these three options.

I’m going to assume that he doesn’t thank a banker for being a banker, a journalist for being a journalist, or a police officer for being a police officer. Yet, all of these people are indispensable to our way of life. At the same time, these people can be used by policy-makers to oppress people both at home and abroad in subtle or not-so-subtle ways. It is certainly possible for him to go about his daily life without even thinking about these people, recognizing their contributions to our society, or feeling the need to thank them for anything that they do.

The same principle can be applied to his feelings about the troops. Many of us are simply people who go to work every day (or two days per month in my case) and try to find a way to do as little work as possible for what we earn. There’s nothing special about what we do.

My point is that I simply don’t trust them to only order me to kill or die for things that I agree with, so that’s one reason I would never sign that contract to join the military.

Again, an entirely reasonable and understandable position. That’s why I so greatly appreciate the fact that we have a volunteer military…if a cause is just and supported by the people you’ll usually find enough willing to sign up and fight for it of their own accord, if not then it starts getting tougher for politicians to do what they want. It’s a good check on the whims of those in power…and the primary reason I would vehemently argue against re-instating the draft.

I have little faith in the people in major seats of power in this country.

You’re always going to have bad apples in politics, even in the best of times (but good ones too, and it’s important to remember that). But I agree that lately our legislative and executive branches seem overly populated with shitheads…particularly in the executive branch.

My point is that I simply don’t trust them to only order me to kill or die for things that I agree with, so that’s one reason I would never sign that contract to join the military.

I have little faith in the people in major seats of power in this country.

Branding them with the responsibility for decisions they had no role in making is as bad as when people spit on Vietnam Veterans when they returned home.

By the way, Slate did a piece on that awhile ago and was unable to come up with any verifiable incidents of people spitting on Vietnam veterans. Anecdotal evidence indicated that it did happen on a couple of occasions, but it was an urban myth that it was a widespread practice.

I think the important thing is that they are always there and ready to defend our freedom. If some country attemtped to invade America our armed forces would be ready and that is why they deserve thanks.

I agree with you completely on that.

One reason I would never join the military is that I couldn’t personally justify risking my life for excursions like Iraq that I consider unnecessary and immoral.

I can and do respect that opinion (it’s one of the reasons I chose not to re-enlist), and I think if you’ll check out websites such as Iraq Veterans Against The War you’ll find that a significant number of veterans do disagree with the orders of our civilian leadership while they’re in uniform. That said, while they’re in service they did sign a contract and swore an oath so they’re still obligated to carry those orders out whether they agree with them or not. Their only real recourse to object is to leave the service (which can actually be a significant tool of protest if the war is unjust and unpopular enough). And I think that’s the way it should be…I doubt that any of us would prefer to live in a society where the military decided that it could pick and choose which lawful orders of our elected government they wanted to follow.

Why should the respect that is owed a member of the military be affected by whether or not the war he fought in was “just” by someone’s standards ?

I’ve thought a lot about this topic myself and my answer would be no, I don’t think the respect that the soldiers receive should be contingent upon whether or not it’s a just war. As you’ve pointed out, once they’ve signed the contract with the military (a contract which can be notoriously one-sided, by the way http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/joiningup/a/recruiter4.htm ) they don’t really have any control over the foreign policy they’re tasked with implementing…being as that authority resides with the civilian leadership. Soldiers are just people doing a dangerous, stressful and often unpopular job, same as repo men or debt collectors or jail guards are just trying to do their unpopular jobs, except that soldiers have less leeway in being able to refuse to do the tasks they’re ordered to perform or quit their job when the people giving the orders turn out to be lying bastards. Some soldiers are professional and do excellent work, some are scumbags who cause problems, some are just doing their time…but that’s a distinction based mainly on the individual, not the profession.

For the respect for the profession itself, I can understand why some people hate the idea of a military (particularly the anarchists). While I sympathize with their reasons, I don’t agree with them because I believe that it’s necessary to have a military to protect our country (because it’s the best means of insuring that our Constitution is able to survive) and while I don’t believe it should be required that people have respect for the military (because it is a free country and disliking the military is an opinion people are entitled to) I tend to take umbrage at people who lump together those who are actually responsible for creating and giving orders to implement bad policy (Bush administration) with the people who have merely sworn an oath to carry out the orders of the sitting President (the military) regardless of whether they personally agree with that President’s party affiliation or personal beliefs. Basically, I don’t believe that the soldiers should be demonized for carrying out the unpopular (or sometimes even unlawful) orders given to them from on high* while I also don’t believe they should be overly lionized for just doing their job in popular conflicts (since they are reasonably compensated for their services…albeit with some exceptions).

Moreover, up until the draft was ended, most of the men who fought in America’s wars had no choice. They were drafted in to the military and they did what was asked of them. Why shouldn’t they be thanked for that ?

I do think that conscripts got a raw deal in that they usually had little or no choice on whether they served and were poorly compensated for the service they rendered, but I don’t know that it means they deserve any more or less respect than the professional military since they weren’t acting of their own volition. I think we should be more sympathetic to their circumstances when judging their actions, but I don’t think that being forced to serve makes conscripts any better or worse as individuals than those who choose to enlist.

*This is not to say that I think soldiers should not be held accountable when they commit war crimes and human rights violations either of their own volition or in the process of carrying out clearly unlawful orders…I very strongly believe that they should. But that’s a very grey area that probably merits its own discussion thread.

One reason I would never join the military is that I couldn’t personally justify risking my life for excursions like Iraq that I consider unnecessary and immoral.

I don’t support the Iraq War and think we need to get out of there as soon as practically possible.

What I said was that Woodrow Wilson’s decision to become involved in World War One was one of the worst foreign policy decisions an American President has ever made. Who cares what his motive was ? There was no reason to send American troops to France to get involved in what was essentially a European civil war.

the gulf of tonkin was officially declared fake in 2005. look at how iraq started. i dont care what lack of choice a veteran had in participating. this military has nothing to do with me other than taking my money and future.