There maybe a chance to change state law , my guess would be most likly not because we want to save or rescue kids in these cases not provide them freedom to make choices we disagree with….heck most of us would like to prevent adults from dying like a Jim Henson.

I will say just cause it is legal does not make it right or morale.

Of course by going on the run they have decided not to fight an appeal. This was a poor choice which removes any chance of an appeal or a stay of the lower court order.

I think once found (if found alive) he will be forced to receive care. If that mean police/security dragging him in and help nurses tie him down I think it will happen. Of course he might have to be tied up a long time so he won’t pull out a pic line or something like that. My point is forcing him wont be as easy as saying “I am the adult, be a good little boy and do what your told”.

As for Aimee – I believe the kid is wrong and should get treatment. BUT I am not sure it should be done against his will (and maybe his civil rights).

As for elderly, they at least have had a chance to live their lives, if they want help to die, so be it. They know the consequences of their actions. If they want to die a painless death, they can choose hospice. If they are not of sound mind and body, they have people to make decisions for them, or they have appointed someone before the situation got so bad they could no longer think for themselves.

These two topics are not on the same level.

I think the main thing is that this is not a cut and dry issue by any means. You and others have raised some very interesting questions that do not have easy answers. Awhile back, Doug wrote a couple of posts on some of these very questions http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/11/01/the-libertarian-hard-cases-part-i-children/ and http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2007/11/13/the-libertarian-hard-cases-part-ii-mental-incapacity/

His learning disablitity does not matter…so he can’t read….a lot of adults can’t read but we no longer without civil rights based on your reading or not reading.

I mean if the kid had a 140 IQ then could he have civil rights?

Is there a human right, a civil right to refuse care? If so what gives us the right to refuse him his rights.

We seem to have no trouble allowing nature to run its course with the old but for some reason we have trouble when it is the young who want that right. I think what we are saying is some lives are worth more than others…..another interesting issue.

“Minnesota statutes require parents to provide necessary medical care for a child, Rodenberg wrote. The statutes say alternative and complementary health care methods aren’t enough.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30824587/?GT1=43001

Merf, I never once said all parents are bad. Ones that go out of their way to not get treatment for something that is treatable should be charged with negligence at the very least if it results in their death.Religious beliefs or not.

John, Willie was a drummer boy, not a soldier, and it was during the civil war, 147 years ago. Not saying he didn’t deserve it, just pointing out he didn’t actually fight.

I don’t agree with kids that young being tried as an adult, because at that age they don’t understand the consequences of their actions. They obviously need mental help.

People have died from taking Tylenol, so your Zoloft point means nothing.

We can’t have it both ways obviously. Each situation would have to be looked at on an individual basis. Not all kids at age 13 are at the same level of maturity.

Like I mentioned before, this kid really believes that he isn’t even sick. Do you call that having a grasp on reality? I dont.

Fruitcake ideas are not criminal (or at least shouldn’t be) unless the actions from the fruitcake idea violate someone else’s rights. I would say that the FLDS folks who insist that it’s okay to force girls as young as 12 to marry someone who is 50 as such a violation wouldn’t you?

*Kids as young as 10 or 11 have been convicted as adults of crimes.

*Kids as young as 12 or 13 can get birth control and reproductive services without parental consent in some states…. even an abortion.

*Fact some kids /parents have blindly followed doctors orders, such as with Zoloft leading to suicide and murder.

*The youngest American solider to earn the Medal of Honor was 12 yr old Willie Johnston.

* 14 yr olds can with training fly a glider or hot air balloon solo.

My points:

* Don’t treat 13 and 3 the same.

* The law in some cases already treat 13 yr olds and younger as adults. What kills me is how in one case he is a little boy without a say (his own cancer treatment) but in another he would be an adult (say if he shot a classmate). How can we have it both ways.

As far as the fruitcake parents….different faith does not make you a fruitcake…some would say Amish parents are hurting their kids , I mean no TV, no X-Box, and no schooling past 8th grade. BUT it is not the states role to raise children. If the Amish want to live without lights and cell phones then have fun….its not for me or anyone else to call them fruitcakes.

Why did these parents even bother with a traditional doctor to find out what was wrong with him in the first place? This kid doesn’t even think he is sick.

Then what happens in a family where one parent wants tradition medicine and the other wants to go with natural healing methods, does the child get to be the tie breaker, or best out of 5 in a game of rock, paper, scissors?

I suppose you think its also okay that an 11 year old girl died from undiagnosed diabetes too?

“The girl’s parents, Dale and Leilani Neumann, attributed the death to “apparently they didn’t have enough faith,” the police chief said.
They believed the key to healing “was it was better to keep praying. Call more people to help pray,” he said. The mother believes the girl could still be resurrected, the police chief said.”

She hadn’t even been to a doctor since she was 3.

Her fruitcake parents chalked her death up to not having enough faith. Should these parents be charged with negligence or do you let them hide behind their religious beliefs?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

I’m done going in circles with you on this.

I am sure there are a lot of influences in this young man’s life and if I were one I would be trying to get him to submit to the treatment. But I also think even at 13 he should have a right to refuse.

If the teen and his parent(s) cannot exercise the right to refuse, why have the right. In other words just make the law say you (they) MUST do whatever the doctor thinks best. Of course doctors have been wrong and have used traditional medicine like Zoloft in kids with deadly results. So what do we say to parents who say NO I don’t want to do what the doctors want and are forced to and then have a poor result.

I know some will say apples and oranges but it is the point of having a right to refuse. Traditional medicine has been wrong before with deadly results.

Do you know for a fact that this boy said, “I don’t want traditional medicine” without ever having talked to his parents about the decision, or knowing how his parents felt about medicine in the first place?

If parent’s didn’t have some sort of power over what their kids believe, church pews would be freakin’ empty.

Is he an adult….well if he committed a crime he could be treated as an adult. Why not now.

As for his parents putting ideas in his head….where is the line on this. Are we going to say that Jewish parents put ideas in their kids heads so all children will be forced feed ham and cheese subs???