Comments on: Governments Collapsing In Tough Economy

By: Kevin

Kevin — Wed, 27 May 2009 19:22:15 +0000

What I mean by “Americans have never learned to live within their means” is not only the abuse of consumer credit that many Americans were engaged in; but also the support by a majority of American voters of all sorts of government programs (from socialized medicine, oops I meant universal healthcare, to government schools, to defense projects that are 20 years out of date, to well, you get the point) without supporting the necessary taxation to pay for them.

The concept of cutting taxes while raising spending is the biggest example of “not living within means”.

By: tfr

tfr — Wed, 27 May 2009 14:09:57 +0000

What you mean is *politicians* have never learned to live within their means. Most of us who aren’t on the gov’t dole are already doing so, else we’d be out on the street. Although with the “public debt” enshrined within the 14th amendment, and with the all too convenient ability to promise the world and deliver, regardless of cost, simply by borrowing wealth that does not yet exist, I can’t see any way out. I, too, believe that our current system will have to crash and be rebuilt from the wreckage.

By: Steve

Steve — Wed, 27 May 2009 13:44:45 +0000

Kevin is right in his generalization, and a little optimistic in his solution. We have been having the discussion since the Declaration of Independence and this is where it has led. The discussion Kevin wants to have I imagine would go much like discussions with North Korea, or Iran, or mid-east peace talks. I have come to believe it is a natural progression that cannot be turned around. It will have to play out to its eventual failure and perhaps some new constitutional scholars will emerge to create the 2nd United States. My suggestion is to bring about the end as quickly as possible. I do not say this lightly, and would like to be convinced otherwise.

I am a patriot to the idea of freedom. Since my country and many of my countrymen have sold their freedom for ease of living and better feelings of self, I no longer am compelled to tie my patriotism to this nation.

By: thomasblair

thomasblair — Wed, 27 May 2009 13:35:37 +0000

Ben Weiss,

Where did you get your 1% figure? I ask because it’s bullshit. SS paid out $612b in benefits in FY 2008. 2008 GDP was approximately $14.28t (as reported by the IMF and CIA Factbook). This is 4.3% of GDP and 21% of the 08 budget.

Medicare paid out $682b in FY 2008. This is 4.8% of GDP and 23% of the 08 budget.

I wish people would quit lumping social security in with medicare and calling them collectively, “Entitlement programs” and they saying (erroneously) that that contribute to our financial problems.

Tough. Grow a pair. They are entitlement programs and they will (thankfully) bankrupt the federal government. As of one year ago tomorrow (and in case you’ve not heard, there have been some small changes in the last 12 months), Dallas Fed President Richard Fisher gave a speech which, among other things, put a dollar figure on the unfunded liabilities of SS, Medicare, and Medicaid. The sum? Ninety-nine point two trillion dollars.

saying (erroneously) that that contribute to our financial problems.

What’s erroneous? They will bankrupt the US Government.

By: southernjames

southernjames — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:18:33 +0000

“same”, not “samen”…typo.

By: southernjames

southernjames — Wed, 27 May 2009 12:17:11 +0000

“The problem is cultural, we Americans have never learned to live within our means.”

Don’t paint us all with that samem broad brush, Kevin.

Some of us have lived within our means our entire lives – paying off in full and never having defaulted on any loan; never having excessive credit card debt (and in my case – no rolling credit card debt at all, anymore); dutifully contributing to the company 401K plan assuming that it, along with the value of the home we bought, would retain its value and modestly grow as the years go by; not taking unethical or illegal short-cuts in our business dealings, not cheating on taxes, etc. etc.

Now we’re just faced with paying for others who haven’t lived within their means.

A dumbass bank who lends $150,000 to somebody who has no chance of ever paying it back has representation. A dumbasss who borrows $150,000 he has no chance of every paying back has representation. A car company and its union making crap nobody wants to buy…has representation. Etc.

People like us? Turns out, there is a name for people like us:

Suckers.

By: Ben Weiss

Ben Weiss — Wed, 27 May 2009 04:57:33 +0000

I wish people would quit lumping social security in with medicare and calling them collectively, “Entitlement programs” and they saying (erroneously) that that contribute to our financial problems.

The truth is that Medicare is -indeed- a problem. Social Security, on the other hand, uses less than 1% of GDP. Get a grip. Just because you don’t like it, that is no reason to lie to yourself and others.

Otherwise, I agree with you.