Thoughts, essays, and writings on Liberty. Written by the heirs of Patrick Henry.

“Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws.”     Plato

May 31, 2009

Socially conservative sickos

by Stephen Gordon

It’s no secret that I harbor no love for the sorts of extreme social conservatives who’d like to shove their religious views up some orifice of mine, but social conservatives rejoicing about the murder of Dr. George Tiller take things to a new low. For those not aware, Tiller performed abortions and was shot at church in front of his wife.

Like cockroaches, “compassionate conservatives” are scurrying out from the cracks and crevices to celebrate this death. Balloon Juice is keeping track of the pro-murder statements over at Free Republic.

At The Next Right, diarist DebraJMSmith entitles her gloating rant: “Abortionist, George Tiller, Shot Dead!” (Update: This post has now been removed from the site)

“And I do not feel sorry for a family who loved a murderer,” she writes. “And I sure do NOT feel sorry for a church that had no problem allowing a murderer to attend.”

It’s to be noted that she also posts Alabama Judge Roy Moore’s poetry on her personal site. Moore recently had to distance himself from a supporter who wrote:

“We must clean up our education system which is indoctrinating our children through a multicultural mix of communism, Islam, New Age and anything that goes, except Christianity, which is now being portrayed as the enemy. Our forefathers founded America on God and his word. The enemy is now taking it away, but he can do it only if we remain apathetic and refuse to listen and act on the truth.”

Of course, Moore attracts supporters such as these when he writes legal opinions like this (emphasis added):

To disfavor practicing homosexuals in custody matters is not invidious discrimination, nor is it legislating personal morality. On the contrary, disfavoring practicing homosexuals in custody matters promotes the general welfare of the people of our State in accordance with our law, which is the duty of its public servants… The State carries the power of the sword, that is, the power to prohibit conduct with physical penalties, such as confinement and even execution. It must use that power to prevent the subversion of children toward this lifestyle, to not encourage a criminal lifestyle… Homosexual behavior is a ground for divorce, an act of sexual misconduct punishable as a crime in Alabama, a crime against nature, an inherent evil, and an act so heinous that it defies one’s ability to describe it. That is enough under the law to allow a court to consider such activity harmful to a child. To declare that homosexuality is harmful is not to make new law but to reaffirm the old; to say that it is not harmful is to experiment with people’s lives, particularly the lives of children.

One wonders how many more Roy Moore supporters will be celebrating the Tiller’s murder in public.  Certainly, a lot more of them will be celebrating in the closet. And Republicans can’t figure out why they are losing elections.

UPDATE: Here is some related sickness on Twitter.

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22 Comments

  1. I consider myself a christian. But don’t confuse that with member of organized religion. It is a terrible tragedy when someone loses his or her life. I feel for his family.

    But would his death have been more acceptable had his head been partially located in a woman’s Vagina when his brain was scrambled? Knowingly performing late term abortions where the fetus is almost at term in today’s climate is a prescription for danger. I abhor this type of abortion practice.

    But still no one had the right to end Dr. Tiller’s life without him having his day in court. We are a country of Laws and not vigilantism. I understand that there are certain conditions where an abortion must be done. But a late term abortion, where the head is the only part left to come out, is nothing less than the taking of a human life. Just as the taking of Dr. Tiller’s life.

    I am very saddened for all who are involved directly or on the periphery of this whole incident.

    Comment by milford — May 31, 2009 @ 9:47 pm
  2. Women will choose more accurately when they develop personal responsibility for who enters their body & is able to respond to such a decision.

    In large part, reason for continued abortion is women are not being given reality based information by which they could make more responsible and informed decisions, with all options available to them without approval.

    Accountability is about ownership of choices

    Responsibility is the ability to respond to choice

    Consent is not making the choice at cost of another without his/her consent.

    When society develops this, much in the way of advancing will occur.

    Comment by ICONIC FREEOM — May 31, 2009 @ 10:03 pm
  3. I have a few things to say on this subject. First, those who rejoice in the murder of Tiller should be condemned– though I understand why they feel the way they do. They are happy that the abortions of this man have come to a halt, but they should not confuse their joy with joy over Tiller’s murder. If they do, they’re denying the heart of their pro-life stance– a stance incompatible with murder in any form. It’s also possible that some mistake murder with justice.

    Second, why would the misplaced passions of some condemn pro-lifers and the view that abortion is wrong and should be stopped? Even if you believe that our nation should never enforce morality in any form, you can not deny basic principles of natural law this nation was founded on. If you do, you are in fact saying there should be no laws at all. Murder is universally regarded as wrong and should be treated as such– in Tiller’s case and in the case of the 30 million babies or so that have been aborted since Roe v. Wade.

    Those who deny the contempt of murdering the unborn are falling prey to convincing lies– lies that turn babies into fetuses– though i’ve never heard someone say that a woman was “with fetus.” I have heard it said that a woman was “with child.” I guess it becomes more convenient to call this child a fetus when we make it something that is disposable.

    The co-founder of the pro-abortion group NARAL and one of the principle architects of pro-choice movement Bernard Nathanson describes the early strategy: “We persuaded the media that the cause of permissive abortion was a liberal, enlightened, sophisticated one. Knowing that if a true poll were taken, we would be soundly defeated, we simple fabricated the results of fictional polls…. This is the tactic of the self-fulfilling lie. Few people care to be in the minority. We aroused enough sympathy to sell our program of permissive abortion by favricating the number of illegal abortions done annually in the U.S.”

    75,000 abortions later, Nathanson explained what changed his heart on abortion: “As a result of all of the new technology– looking at this baby, examining it, investigating it, watching its metabolic functions, watching it urinate, swallow, move and sleep, watching it dream, which you could see by its rapid eye movements via ultra-sound, treating it, operating on it– I finally came to the conviction that this was my patient. This was a person! I was a physician, pledged to save my patients’ lives, not to destroy them.” Later, Nathanson would make the movies “The Silent Scream” and “Eclipse of Reason” showing abortions in all their horror.

    Obama called for us to find “common ground” on abortion. I can not find common ground with those who promote murder in any form– this is why I have no common ground with Tiller’s killer. To somehow equate Tiller’s killer (and those confused souls glad it took place) with the pro-life movement is rediculous. They are not the pro-life movement but rather the antithesis– and they have more in common with those eager for abortion to stay legal.

    Comment by bzaffini — May 31, 2009 @ 11:20 pm
  4. To be clear, I don’t agree with what’s called “partial birth abortion.” But this is a matter for the courts and the political process, not murder.

    And I’m a big C.S. Lewis and natural law fan. Just not a fan of murder.

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — May 31, 2009 @ 11:29 pm
  5. I do not consider this a murder…it was a VERY late term abortion.

    Comment by Chris Brocksmith — June 1, 2009 @ 2:31 am
  6. With all due respect, to paint all social conservatives with the same broad brush, and to use the attitudes of a tiny percentage as representing why republicans can’t win elections is asinine.

    Here’s your logic at work: There were a number of posters on Huffington who celebrated the cancer death of the “war criminal enabler” Tony Snow. There are similar outrageous sentiments expressed by a small percentage of liberals all the time. And Huffpo is a far more representative and ‘mainstream’ liberal blog site than whoever that “NextRight” person is, in terms of representing conservatism.

    If McCain had simply run a competent instead of a totally incompetent campaign, he MAY have pulled out a victory. But according to YOUR logic, you could have used comments like those on Huffpo, or perhaps the tiny percentage of anti-war protesters who carried “Assassinate Bush” signs as being “representative” of the “Secular Liberal” mindset and stated “And democrats can’t figure out why they are losing elections.”

    Right.

    Back to the issue at hand, this murder was absolutely terrible for the pro-life movement. It is certainly no surprise that EVERY single mainstream pro-life organization has strongly condemned the killing.

    All this does is galvanize the opposition. Which you may not give a shit about when it comes to abortion – but what you MAY care about, is that this is also very bad for conservatism, libertarians, the Tea Party movement, and 2nd Amendment supporters, in addition to those horrible cross-waving Christians and religious nut pro-lifers (aka “cockroaches”).

    This “doctor” is now officially a MARTYR.

    And the guy who killed him (who by the way was also a member of an “anti-government” group, you’ll be thrilled to know) is the new Timothy McVeigh to be thrown in our faces by the Left. He is a “Domestic RIGHT WING terrorist.” No we can’t use the “T” word for Islamic fanatics who want us dead, because that might hurt some Muslim feelings….but Janet N. and her DHS Extremism Report, and those Leftys who defended it, can now loudly claim to be “vindicated.”

    What WILL get shoved up our orifices will be Leftists screeching for more gun control, more “hate crimes” and “hate speech” laws and prosecution; investigation of “Tea Baggers” who may by chance have a dangerous and/or racist sign sign in their midst at a rally, etc.

    And these people are in full control of the Federal government, in case you hadn’t noticed.

    But, oh by all means, direct YOUR ire towards those evil “social conservatives” and call them names.

    Comment by southernjames — June 1, 2009 @ 4:17 am
  7. “I do not consider this a murder…it was a VERY late term abortion”

    Then you are no better than that whom you condemn. The last time I checked, two wrongs still don’t make a right.

    Comment by SC — June 1, 2009 @ 5:36 am
  8. “With all due respect, to paint all social conservatives with the same broad brush, and to use the attitudes of a tiny percentage as representing why republicans can’t win elections is asinine.”

    1) I’ve been doing some research to come up with a better define social conservative. There is a big difference between someone who is apposed to abortion, someone who would ban alcohol, and someone who would kill a preacher.

    2) Time will tell regarding elections. I don’t think abortion is so much the issue, but banning other things certainly is.

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — June 1, 2009 @ 6:47 am
  9. Mr. Gordon:

    I know Judge Roy Moore personally. I can assure you he would never endorse unlawful much less murder.

    As a Christian he believes such judgment in the hands of God and not man.

    And he does not believe in forcing his views upon anyone.

    He does not believe gay couples adopting childern is in the best interests. I take it you disagree with that view.

    However, he would not support a renewal of the old sodomy laws or anything of the sort as I take you think he does.

    He strongly believes in upholding the Constitution and REDUCING the size and scope of government not increasing its role in our lives.
    The typical politician both left and right today is constantly trying to increase the size of government and its role in ours lives.

    Sir, if you condemn all the Christians in this country due to your differences and overlook the fact that most Christians believe in reducing and restraining Government, you are throwing away your best allies in preserving and restoring liberty to this nations.

    Thanks.

    Comment by princeliberty — June 1, 2009 @ 6:49 am
  10. Prince:

    If Moore is what you say he is, based on his history, he needs to make the record very clear on issues such as these. Reading his columns at WND would lead most people to the opposite conclusion.

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — June 1, 2009 @ 6:53 am
  11. Prince,

    Which Alabama Christians are you talking about? Gerald Allen,who would ban books? Hank Erwin, who would ban gourmet beer? Those who ban sex toys?

    When sex toy laws in Alabama are overturned, as opposed to being laughed at, I may believe you.

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — June 1, 2009 @ 6:54 am
  12. All life is equal across the board.

    Each person places subjective/selective value upon life to decide which is taken and which is spared

    Everyone is predator and everyone is prey

    How each person derives value placed upon life, be it Constitution, Bible, etc. is purely subjective as opinion is vast & far reaching.

    You take the chicken’s life because you seek sustenance

    You take jihad’s life because you seek safety

    It’s one choice over the other

    The application of free markets & value placed is exactly what people do all the time

    Why do you kill the ant & not your dog? You value the dog and not so much the ant

    Abortion is no different. Your personal emotional opinion, subjective as it is, makes the decision about life

    As an American I have no issue that each decides for self this issue. Again, I point to my earlier post that women will choose more accurately toward not having abortion when they develop more personal responsibility about who enters their body and the far-reaching consequences of such a decision without protection

    Education & all possible options being open to women will support them in making these decisions

    Comment by ICONIC FREEOM — June 1, 2009 @ 7:03 am
  13. “His patients were ‘almost always in circumstances where something had gone horribly wrong with a pregnancy,’ and where a woman’s health would be endangered if the pregnancy continued, Brownlie said.”

    “Kansas law generally allows abortions even into the third trimester so long as the physician determines the fetus isn’t viable. A doctor who makes such a determination after 21 weeks gestation must report the reasons why the determination was made.”

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/01/tiller.profile/index.html

    So it’s not as if this guy was doing it just willy-nilly for kicks and cash. There were determinations made that either the fetus was not viable and/or that the mother’s health was endangered and a report filed. For anyone that’s going to claim he was cooking his reports, the last time I checked the rule was “innocent until proven guilty”, so unless you have some medical knowledge and have read his reports you really have no standing.

    Comment by SC — June 1, 2009 @ 7:06 am
  14. People don’t reject the Republican Party and vote Obama because some insanely small percentage of the populace, belonging to some tiny fundamentalist Christian sects, do stuff like call for “banning sex toys.”

    It amazes and also amuses me that the anti-Christians’ and anti-social conservatives’ so-called “solution” to the GOP’s problems is to suggest that GOP throw the SocialCons under the bus and become Secularists.

    What are the two biggest SocialCon issues in America? Gay Marriage and Abortion. Right?

    Everthing else (like the over-inflated and bogus, hyped up by the liberal MSM, controversy over evolution/creationism in schools) is so minor as to be virtually irrelevant to the big picture.

    And right now, the latest reliable national poll data shows the country is very slowly moving MORE towards being pro-life, and not less. It is right around 50-50. And a majority – over 50% – of the voters in one of the most ‘progresive’ states in America – California, just rejected legalizing gay marriage. And yet – Bush got something like 35% of the vote last time around, in California.

    Hmmmm…something tells me it wasn’t pro-life or anti-gay marriage positions that cost him FIFTEEN percentage points – those uh….oh yeah, those pesky SOCIAL CON issues.. Must have been something else.

    Like for example the failure of the GOP to keep its own house in order, both in the area of Ethics, and more importantly, chucking the philosphy of SMALLER government, which allows for lower and less burdensome taxation – and which can truly distinguish one party from the other……if not totally abandoned, like Bush and Co. did.

    And also its ham-handed and clumsy ongoing failure to lure a larger percentage of voters in what should be a natural constituency for the GOP – blacks and hispanics – who are statistically MORE socially conservative than whites; but yet who consistently vote for the Secular Leftist party.

    If the GOP could consistently attract even 35% of the Black vote instead of its current 8-9%….it’s all over for the Democrats.

    So as much as it may the Libertarian wet dream for the GOP to abandon groups like pro-life Christians, I would assert the GOP does NOT need to do so, to recover and get back in power. Exhortations from its “friends” from the RINO, inside the beltway, elitist chattering classes notwithstanding.

    The sneering and condescending “where else are they going to go,” which I have seen some Libertarians make, is not a winning formula for achieving a smaller Federal government. Which is a goal both SocialCons and Libertarians want to achieve. So I’m thinking it just may be better to work together and try to focus on common ground rather than calling religious people “cockroaches.”

    Comment by southernjames — June 1, 2009 @ 7:50 am
  15. I don’t think abortion is a key issue that causes a lot of people to no longer vote Republican. To be sure, there are extremists and single issues voters on both sides of the isle on that one.

    However, the general “ban it because it’s a sin” mentality with pervades the deep south turns off a whole lot of voters.

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — June 1, 2009 @ 7:57 am
  16. You know, I actually went to Free Republic last night and read a lot of the comments. There were a few in bad taste, but for the most part, I didn’t see the gloating.

    I didn’t see much sympathy either, but that’s to be expected.

    I also saw several comments condemning the murder.

    I saw several comments of concern that the murder will precipitate a full on attack on 2A.

    Comment by TWC — June 1, 2009 @ 8:06 am
  17. I’ve got the same Second Amendment concerns.

    Did you check out the Twitter feed I updated with? Here are a few:

    # Crap, I always forgot hashtags. I’m happy Tiller’s dead. – Jennifer Waite, Selah, Washington
    # UPDATE… Doctor George Tiller was aborted today in his 204th trimester – aren’t paybacks a bitch – Punch
    # oh HAPPY DAY! Tiller the baby killer is DEAD! – Samantha Pelch
    # George Tiller the baby killer was shot dead this morning. God bless the gunmen who hopefully won’t be caught. – readnwatchchris, Creedmor. NC
    # was George Tiller the baby killers brain scrambled the way he scrambled full term fetuses.. one can only hope – Brad S

    Comment by Stephen Gordon — June 1, 2009 @ 8:11 am
  18. As I stated before, “I’m glad Tony Snow is dead,” uttered by a some unhinged leftists on one of the largest and most mainstream liberal blog sites in America was hardly justification for condemning democrats or liberals across the board.

    Doesn’t political conservatism deserve the same benefit of the doubt? Especially since in one instance the reference was to a guy whose politics they didnt’ agree with, and on the other, it is a person who many people believe, rightly or wrongly, was a mass murderer of human beings.

    And somebody expressing a complete lack of sympathy for the Doctor is NOT necessarily, in all instances, an endorsement of the murder itself.

    I suspect that if, in 1946, a confirmed Nazi death camp gas oven operator, who changed his name as was hiding out in the US, was gunned down in cold blood by somebody, there would have been quite a bit of “good – he had it coming to him” sentiments expressed by many if not most – especially in the Jewish community. But I believe that MOST of those very same people would, if asked in follow-up, reply – “well yes, the killer really does need to be arrested and prosecuted – murder is murder, even if the guy killed “deserved” it.”

    Comment by southernjames — June 1, 2009 @ 10:50 am
  19. And yes, I will state again that this is bad news and not good news for the pro-life movement, 1st Amendment rights for politically incorrect conservative speech, and the 2nd Amendment.

    There is already some foaming at the mouth anger from the Left AT Obama for not “standing up” to the “right wing extremists” and defending that DHS report.

    Comment by southernjames — June 1, 2009 @ 10:55 am
  20. One of the things that has always confused me about libertarians is why they think their natural gravitation is towards the Republican party. Why would a libertarian ever feel at home with a party that spent the past 8 years corroding civil liberties under the guise of security and religion?

    Comment by alec — June 1, 2009 @ 11:13 am
  21. [...] can do, Who Killed George Tiller?, Vilifying the victim, Republicans, Operation Rescue in Trouble, Socially conservative sickos, Terror Should Not Pay, If George Tiller doesn’t matter to you, does god?, Parallels and [...]

    Pingback by Christian Extremism and Terrorism Is Undermining America's Democracy | Prose Before Hos — June 1, 2009 @ 11:19 am
  22. “Why would a libertarian ever feel at home with a party that spent the past 8 years corroding civil liberties under the guise of security and religion?” Gosh that’s a real toughie. How about….

    A) Because in terms of pushing for a smaller versus larger government, there is at least the slim and remote possibility that the GOP can be reformed. In contrast, the Statist Party of America firmly stands for, and is racing towards, centralized planning and control, and exponentially increasing the size and power of the Federal govt. So which one should a member of a party who ferverantly believes as a cornerstone, in smaller government, be more likely to gravitate towards?

    B) You think civil liberties have been corroded the past 8 years?….you ain’t seen NOTHIN yet. Have you not been paying attention these first 100 days? So why is the Statist party a better option?

    Or are you saying it is better to just wander around in the woods, and then go to a Ron Paul rally every four years for kicks and grins, rather than ever ally yourself with one of the two parties that actually has a chance of winning?

    C) Name one of your civil liberties that has been corroded “under the guise of RELIGION,” by the Republican party in the past 8 years? So your bill to change the law in the state you live in so that you can marry the man you are living with didn’t pass? Obama is against gay marriage too, not just those evil Christians. So you lose on that one. So…Name another one. Go ahead.

    Comment by southernjames — June 1, 2009 @ 1:23 pm

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