I don’t deny that the individuals are better educated and more professional, no more former HS football stars roughing up people with low blood sugar, but the rules and training have changed.

The problem to me is that highly educated and well intentioned people will over step their boundaries when they feel that their actions are warranted and just. Then when you add to that training that views every individual as a potential threat, a society that can’t dish out enough punishment along with rules reinforcing a sense of superiority, you’re asking for trouble from a minority that enjoys the power.

The last time I had any interaction with law enforcement as an offender was about 6 years ago, I was pulled over for flicking a cigarette out of my window, and it was late at night so with the questions I think it had more to do with a thought that I may have been drinking. Nothing happened, I drove off, but what struck me was the process. Lights in my mirrors so that I couldn’t see, the officer standing behind me so I couldn’t see him and as I have noticed when driving past stops, I’m sure with his hand on his weapon, that first intimidating communication sets the tone for the rest of the encounter and I can understand how it makes some people extremely uncomfortable and there reactions illogical and maybe, just maybe, gets normally law abiding citizens to lash out.

Looking back though… back in the “good old” Indiana I grew up in, in the 60s – once you got outside of Lafayette or Indy and were on a rural road…..

Well, if you were a minority and you got pulled over for whatever reason (or looked Jewish, or looked like a hippy, etc., etc.), well…..hmmmm… a cop car with a couple of state troopers in it, it is almost 100% certain that they would both be white men. And that they would not have had much if any training in the areas of conflict avoidance, “talking down” an excited citizen, anger management, etc.; probably no requirement (or ability?) to “call in” the license of the stopped driver for a computerized check, and there would be NO camera mounted on their patrol car, let alone ANY potential cameras anyplace else (phones, security cameras, etc.). And they’d be coming from a department which had NEVER been sued in its history for police brutality. And coming from a very sheltered and segregated environment – their entire lives. (Indiana may not have had “de jure” Jim Crow like in the south, but they sure had it “de facto”). So here it is, rural Indiana in 1965, and what’s to stop them from giving said driver a little “lesson in manners” if they are so inclined….and who is ever going to find out?

Contrast 1965, on Route 52 outside of Lafayette, to today, 2009. Both cops MUCH more highly trained. Possibly college as opposed to high school educated. At least a reasonable chance as opposed to zero chance, that one of them will be black or hispanic and/or a female. Camera mounted on the car. Cameras on cell phones, and depending on where the stop occurs, perhaps mounted elsewhere too. Computerized background checks; verification back at HQ as to where they are, who they have stopped, and what they are doing. Departments which have had to weather lots of litigation over the past 20+ years, which does over time result in altered mandated policies/behavior…And even if both are white men, they are officers who have grown up in a more diverse and integrated environment than existed 40+ years ago.

I think the odds of that being a peaceful and professionally conducted stop are better now, than in 1965.

In so many areas of society, we have (in my opinion) gone backwards and downhill. But the conduct of law enforcement officers in terms of their interaction with the general populace, is one area where I think we have made some positive progress in the last half-century.

Another example is in the area of crowd control. If you look at video from the 1930s or 40′s or 50s of how strikers or protesters or marchers or sports stadium field rushing celebraters were treated – in the “olden days” it consisted of cops on foot and on horseback, simply wading and riding into the mob trampling people with their horses, and swinging their nightsticks and busting skulls.

James, I agree on there being bigger issues at hand in our daily lives and for me the lingua tertii imperil (Victor Klemperer) that has seemed to turn every ripple into a tidal wave of crisis and imminent peril over the past 10 to 15 years has been equally troubling and IMO has filtered to the local level. Is it being used as a tool for the eventual turning over of the constitution by a defined group or simply an extension of politics and the marketing required to get elected and consolidate power? I don’t know but every day I’m more certain the outcome will be the same no matter the intention.

Personally, I think the trooper was wrong, there surely are procedures in place to deal with scofflaw EMTs not yielding to troopers in an appropriate manner, pulling him over while in rout to the hospital to make his point is asinine.

There was a time, not long ago, when it wasn’t necessarily a crime to put an officer in his place when he overstepped the bounds of sense and decency.

It reminds me of something my grandmother did back in the Lafayette in the mid 80’s. She lived on 9th st. hill and one day a man staggering down the sidewalk fell in her yard. She called the police, at the same time, while on the phone a cruiser pulls up and the officer begins to roughly pick up and drop the man in an attempt to get him to respond, not a Rodney King, but not necessary either. I didn’t know what was happening and hearing the commotion came around the corner just in time to see my grandmother run down the stairs and body slam the cop placing herself between him and the man on the ground. She then, pointing her finger in the officers face, basically told him that he wasn’t smart enough to determine on sight if the man was drunk, having a seizure, heart attack or diabetic reaction and she didn’t’ care how tough he thought he was he would need to go through her before he laid another finger on the man. I still laugh at it, but he stopped and didn’t’ charge her or cuff her and thank God they didn’t have tasers then.

Videos like that one, and every other one I’ve ever seen, reinforce it in me, that such a reaction, no matter how pissed off or legitimately wronged I have been, is not going to end well for me.

That does not in ANY way shape or form suggest that I am supporting what that cop did to the EMT.

I have never disagreed one iota, that cops MUST be held to the very highest of standards and that EVERY single means should be taken, through: proper training, deterrent lawsuits, disciplinary action, public awareness, etc., so that incidents like this one, are EXTREMELY rare and extremely isolated. (Total elimination will of course not be possible until human police officers are replaced by robots).

Which it APPEARS at least, that they are.

So again, that is why I am not getting all worked up about whether we are turning into a “police state,” when something like this comes along. That is NOT the same as saying “look the other way.” This reminds me of some of the hysteria which followed the post (it may have been Brad) about how that big bad awful government can just “steal” your property and pay you “whatever they want” for it, to install a monument. Our freedoms and liberty may be crashing down and disappearing before our very eyes for a lot of very terrifying reasons…but sorry, the power of eminent domain ain’t on the list. Or if it is, it’s WAY down there.

And we may very well live a “police state” in about 5-10 years, with a domestic army of Federal brown-shirts monitoring our every activity. But the reasons to fear this coming down the pike at us, do not include the EMT incident as a causative factor, or leading indicator. IMO.

As for the lack of responses to your Sotomayer posts, I do indeed care very deeply about this issue. However, I am constrained by time and must pick and choose when I can post on issues – and with respect to THAT particular one – there had already been an earlier post which discussed her now infamous loathesome quote, which I believe I commented on. But then, and I can’t speak for anyone else just me, I kind of lost interest in the whole Sotomayer thing after that, because it is a done deal. She’s going to be the next SC justice, and there is not a damn thing anybody can do about it.

What if it was your mother being taken to the hospital via ambulance but the police put her at risk because they wanted to have a pissing match with the EMT transporting her, might you get worked up then?

While you may never find yourself in the wrong place at the wrong time, the fact is some people (who like you don’t go out of their way looking for trouble) find themselves on the wrong side of the law. There’s probably a 99.9% chance you will never find yourself the victim of a wrong door no-knock midnight drug raid but just because it will likely ‘never happen to you’ does this mean we should look the other way when it happens to someone else?

I can’t make you or anyone else care about anything (incidentally, judging by my lack of response to my Sotomayor posts, something I think you would agree is an important issue, apparently no one ‘cares’ about that either).

All I know is that when I learn about cases like this, I can’t help but not “get worked up” and sharing it with others. Whether or not readers choose to care is completely up to them.

The things that make me uncomfortable right now, tend more towards stuff like wondering whether we are witnessing an INTENTIONAL Cloward-Pliven, and/or Gramscian sort of strategy happening before our very eyes, as my jaw hangs open in disbelief; or if it is simply gross cluelessness and incompetance we’re witnessing.

I’ll go with Hanlon’s Razor on that one (though I like your references), but Hanlon’s can still sever a country’s financial jugular just as well.

When federal authority is assumed to be miraculous because it is delivered in pleasant tones, can ignorant faith in that authority on a national scale be manifested in assumptions that local authority figures are also infallible? And can that assumption be held by the local authority figures themselves?

Does America’s current degeneration into the expediencies of paternal authoritarianism permeate all the way down?

Doesn’t history kind of bear out that highly troubled populations often seek magical powerful authoritarian rescue? And do we really want to tolerate results like that?

Well, I suppose that depends, now doesn’t it. Perhaps you’re the type who gets in bar fights, is a reckless driver, and is also a chronic jaywalker. As for me, I don’t deal with police in my daily life…er.. approximately, EVER. Unless slowing down when I see a cruiser laying in wait with a radar gun counts. I think the last time I spoke to a cop was when I got my last speeding ticket about four years ago.

And since I did not lead him on a high speed chase, and since I was not high on angel dust when he did succeed in getting me to stop, and since I am not a known drug dealing felon who then led him on a foot chase, and since I did not get all agitated and struggle and yell and carry on to high heaven – but instead just was calm and polite and gave him my licence and registration (although I will admit I did try unsuccessfully to whine my way out of it) — I ended up NOT being the one, two, or three victims in my entire state that year, of excessive use of force by a cop – and so you’ll find no video of me driving, or running, or struggling, or sqwawking away until I get tased or kicked or neck-grabbed, anywhere on the internet.

But whatever floats your boat – by all means post those videos every time one surfaces. A little variety from the usual, is certainly fine with me. But I’m sorry, I just can’t get all that worked up about it.

The things that make me uncomfortable right now, tend more towards stuff like wondering whether we are witnessing an INTENTIONAL Cloward-Pliven, and/or Gramscian sort of strategy happening before our very eyes, as my jaw hangs open in disbelief; or if it is simply gross cluelessness and incompetance we’re witnessing. I would really like to know which it is. And I’m thinking that the events now unfolding on a virtual daily basis, are going to be GREATLY impacting our “daily lives” and those of generations to come.

After watching it a few times, I’m struck by how she refuses to comply with an order to back out of the dangerous roadway, how she dares the officer to arrest her and tase her, how she starts to head back to her truck after being informed she’s under arrest, how she struggles against his attempt to cuff her.

What should we expect the officer to do? Forcing her into the cuffs would probably break bones in a septuagenarian. A taser hit is painful (and admittedly dangerous for certain heart conditions), but it’s only temporary pain. The alternative is what? Forgo the arrest?

She could have accepted the ticket, then fought it in court (and probably won due to sympathy). Fighting it in the street is not a good answer.

As for the EMT in the original post, I think the officer should have been charged and disciplined or fired. I also think the EMT should have submitted to arrest, if the other EMT could still deliver the patient safely. The arrested EMT could then crucify the officer in court. And whatever else they chose to do, detaining a man by the throat is very unlikely to be sanctioned police procedure.

I agree with Stephen: these incidents should be resolved on a case-by-case basis.

That is certainly true as well SC. That’s what is great about having these things preserved on video. I can assure you that I’ve seen many other videos where the cops acted appropriately. I’m not one of those who assume the worst about the police. I make judgments on a case-by-case basis.

Having said that, in response to the comment that too many people give a benefit of a doubt to police officers, I’d say it does cut both ways – there are (admittedly smaller) number of people that automatically assume the police are WRONG in their actions when a complaint is made.

Too many people I know give far too much ‘benefit of the doubt’ to the police officer and forget that it’s up to the state to PROVE BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that the accused committed the crime.

I see that too. And I agree: the burden of proof remains with the state.

Private Citizens use video to defend themselves; government video surveillance is often used to push at the borders of the Fourth Amendment.

To paraphrase a quote I couldn’t find with a quick search: “Citizens should be free to pursue any activity which is not expressly prohibited by just laws; governments should be prohibited from pursuing any activity not expressly permitted by just laws.”