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	<title>Comments on: Kevin Drum Astonished That People Disproportionately Like Subsidized Stuff</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: TerryP</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68580</link>
		<dc:creator>TerryP</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 20:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68580</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My guess is that the lack of competition in some areas is mainly due to government (both federal and state) regulations.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My guess is that the lack of competition in some areas is mainly due to government (both federal and state) regulations.</p>
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		<title>By: Vast</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68576</link>
		<dc:creator>Vast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68576</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/compstudy_52006.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;lack of competition&lt;/a&gt; between insurance carriers in geographical regions has a lot to do with the high price of health care.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I that the <a href="http://www.ama-assn.org/ama1/pub/upload/mm/368/compstudy_52006.pdf" rel="nofollow">lack of competition</a> between insurance carriers in geographical regions has a lot to do with the high price of health care.</p>
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		<title>By: Vast</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68575</link>
		<dc:creator>Vast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just to clarify, I&#039;m not trying to argue that is the way to go. I&#039;m just trying to wrap my head around the math.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, I&#8217;m not trying to argue that is the way to go. I&#8217;m just trying to wrap my head around the math.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68574</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:24:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Vast, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2008/10/20/is-free-market-medicine-heartless/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;the high prices are due to a combination of restricted supply and subsidization of demand.&lt;/a&gt; 

Hopey McChange is not offering a greater supply, and he is offering to subsidize demand even more.  Guess what that&#039;s going to do for spending?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vast, <a href="http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2008/10/20/is-free-market-medicine-heartless/" rel="nofollow">the high prices are due to a combination of restricted supply and subsidization of demand.</a> </p>
<p>Hopey McChange is not offering a greater supply, and he is offering to subsidize demand even more.  Guess what that&#8217;s going to do for spending?</p>
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		<title>By: Vast Variety &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Health Care Math</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68573</link>
		<dc:creator>Vast Variety &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Health Care Math</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] posted this question in a comment over at The Liberty Papers and as I’ve been sitting here today working I’ve delved into more deeply.  How much money would [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] posted this question in a comment over at The Liberty Papers and as I’ve been sitting here today working I’ve delved into more deeply.  How much money would [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68571</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:53:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Vast,

We currently spend about $2.4T (2008 numbers &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;from here&lt;/a&gt;) on healthcare in this country.  That&#039;s nearly 10 times what your proposal would bring in.

Further, from that link:

&lt;em&gt;The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,700 in 2008. Workers contributed nearly $3,400, or 12 percent more than they did in 2007.&lt;/em&gt;

$96.40 per month is about $1150 a year.  If you take the $12.7K number above and divide by four, you get over $3K per person -- about three times the $96.40 premium.

And as someone whose wife recently had to make a visit to the emergency room and just got an $800 bill for the &lt;strong&gt;co-pay&lt;/strong&gt;, I can tell you that the premiums charged are only a portion of what the out-of-pocket cost would be.  

So even if you believe Barack&#039;s claims about reining in the cost model (which I don&#039;t, unless they&#039;re willing to significantly limit -- i.e. ration -- care), it will still be fabulously more expensive than a $96.40 premium.

And that doesn&#039;t take into account that of 300 million residents, only somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 million draw a paycheck.  Others are kids or getting social security or other welfare programs, but you can expect that the burden on the taxpayers will be significantly higher than $96.40 per month to cover it.

(This further underscores, of course, the ridiculously low $96.40 premium, which is charged to seniors -- a group which spends disproportionately higher than folks in my demographic on health care).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vast,</p>
<p>We currently spend about $2.4T (2008 numbers <a href="http://www.nchc.org/facts/cost.shtml" rel="nofollow">from here</a>) on healthcare in this country.  That&#8217;s nearly 10 times what your proposal would bring in.</p>
<p>Further, from that link:</p>
<p><em>The annual premium that a health insurer charges an employer for a health plan covering a family of four averaged $12,700 in 2008. Workers contributed nearly $3,400, or 12 percent more than they did in 2007.</em></p>
<p>$96.40 per month is about $1150 a year.  If you take the $12.7K number above and divide by four, you get over $3K per person &#8212; about three times the $96.40 premium.</p>
<p>And as someone whose wife recently had to make a visit to the emergency room and just got an $800 bill for the <strong>co-pay</strong>, I can tell you that the premiums charged are only a portion of what the out-of-pocket cost would be.  </p>
<p>So even if you believe Barack&#8217;s claims about reining in the cost model (which I don&#8217;t, unless they&#8217;re willing to significantly limit &#8212; i.e. ration &#8212; care), it will still be fabulously more expensive than a $96.40 premium.</p>
<p>And that doesn&#8217;t take into account that of 300 million residents, only somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 million draw a paycheck.  Others are kids or getting social security or other welfare programs, but you can expect that the burden on the taxpayers will be significantly higher than $96.40 per month to cover it.</p>
<p>(This further underscores, of course, the ridiculously low $96.40 premium, which is charged to seniors &#8212; a group which spends disproportionately higher than folks in my demographic on health care).</p>
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		<title>By: Vast</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68569</link>
		<dc:creator>Vast</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:35:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68569</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just a theoretical math question...

If you stopped taking medicare taxes out of everyone&#039;s paycheck, and just charged them the 96.40 a month, putting everyone in the country onto medicare (which would be a revenue of somewhere around $28 Billion a month from 300 million people) would that provide care for every American without them needing private insurance companies at all? 

I guess what I am asking is how much money would it take to provide health care to every American every month?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a theoretical math question&#8230;</p>
<p>If you stopped taking medicare taxes out of everyone&#8217;s paycheck, and just charged them the 96.40 a month, putting everyone in the country onto medicare (which would be a revenue of somewhere around $28 Billion a month from 300 million people) would that provide care for every American without them needing private insurance companies at all? </p>
<p>I guess what I am asking is how much money would it take to provide health care to every American every month?</p>
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		<title>By: VRB</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68564</link>
		<dc:creator>VRB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 00:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68564</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I guess it would be nice for all those on medicare who have children to be taken care of by them. Also those who have been vehemently oppose to Medicare to give it up, especially all those politicians who parents are using it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess it would be nice for all those on medicare who have children to be taken care of by them. Also those who have been vehemently oppose to Medicare to give it up, especially all those politicians who parents are using it.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice H</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/kevin-drum-astonished-that-people-disproportionately-like-subsidized-stuff/#comment-68557</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Jul 2009 21:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6539#comment-68557</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The problem is, each generation figures that since they paid for the previous generation, they&#039;re owed. And I&#039;m not sure how to argue against that other than on the moral principle that nobody owes anybody anything.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem is, each generation figures that since they paid for the previous generation, they&#8217;re owed. And I&#8217;m not sure how to argue against that other than on the moral principle that nobody owes anybody anything.</p>
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