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	<title>Comments on: Obama, Gates, Crowley, and the Troubling Controversy that Seemingly Won’t Go Away</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: SWilliams</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68606</link>
		<dc:creator>SWilliams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6543#comment-68606</guid>
		<description>Ckirksey- Don’t trouble these “Libertarians” with the truth, that would subvert their role as an off shoot of the Republican Party that postures as independent thought. 

Red, black, Portorican, doesn’t matter with abuse of power unless you fall in the white category. Particularly when the black man throws out the “race card” then all bets are off vis a vis the Constitution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ckirksey- Don’t trouble these “Libertarians” with the truth, that would subvert their role as an off shoot of the Republican Party that postures as independent thought. </p>
<p>Red, black, Portorican, doesn’t matter with abuse of power unless you fall in the white category. Particularly when the black man throws out the “race card” then all bets are off vis a vis the Constitution.</p>
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		<title>By: ckirksey</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68605</link>
		<dc:creator>ckirksey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 19:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6543#comment-68605</guid>
		<description>The Crowley/Gates incident should be analyzed from the very beginning...the 911 call and not from the disorderly conduct arrest. When Crowley got the dispatcher&#039;s call of a possible BE no mention of two black men was made. When Crowley arrived on the scene both Crowley and Whalen agree that Whalen identified herself as the 911 caller.

However Crowley&#039;s police report indicates that Whalen tells him of two black men on the porch with backpacks. Whalen has a made a public statement saying she said no such thing. Crowley nor his representative has publically disputed Whalen.

So now we have Crowley with the 911 caller and he apparently does not say to her &quot;What did you see?&quot; He reacts to what? Gates appearing behind the glass door. Hmmm. A black man.

Now the next question would be: Can Crowley approach the man behind the glass door and ask (demand?) that he step outside? Can Crowley that the man show some proof that he resides at the house? Can Crowley claim exigent circumstances and enter the house and arrest Gates?

How pertinent is this:

(“[I]f there are articulable facts supporting a reasonable suspicion that a person has committed a criminal offense, that person may be stopped in order to identify him, to question him briefly, or to detain him briefly while attempting to obtain additional information”); Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972)

Now exactly what &quot;articulable facts&quot; that support &quot;a reasonable suspicion that a person has committed a criminal offense&quot; did Crowley have? A POSSIBLE BE by two males, Gates, a black man, standing behind the glass door??? Bingo!!!

BTW Gates is only required to give his name if the above facts are in play. No address, no photo, name only. Anything beyond is up to the police to obtain in an investigation.

Also I now believe that Obama has made a big mistake in having the beer party because I suspect in a month or so Crowley will be in serious trouble.

Obama made a political miscue in saying &quot;the police acted stupidly&quot;. Why? Because no one in the news media is really interested in just following the known facts to their logical conclusion.

Will there be an investigation into Crowley&#039;s apparent false police report? If it is false and Whalen&#039;s account is correct Crowley clearly did a very poor job of invetigation at the scene of possible BE. He reacted to perhaps his base preconceptions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Crowley/Gates incident should be analyzed from the very beginning&#8230;the 911 call and not from the disorderly conduct arrest. When Crowley got the dispatcher&#8217;s call of a possible BE no mention of two black men was made. When Crowley arrived on the scene both Crowley and Whalen agree that Whalen identified herself as the 911 caller.</p>
<p>However Crowley&#8217;s police report indicates that Whalen tells him of two black men on the porch with backpacks. Whalen has a made a public statement saying she said no such thing. Crowley nor his representative has publically disputed Whalen.</p>
<p>So now we have Crowley with the 911 caller and he apparently does not say to her &#8220;What did you see?&#8221; He reacts to what? Gates appearing behind the glass door. Hmmm. A black man.</p>
<p>Now the next question would be: Can Crowley approach the man behind the glass door and ask (demand?) that he step outside? Can Crowley that the man show some proof that he resides at the house? Can Crowley claim exigent circumstances and enter the house and arrest Gates?</p>
<p>How pertinent is this:</p>
<p>(“[I]f there are articulable facts supporting a reasonable suspicion that a person has committed a criminal offense, that person may be stopped in order to identify him, to question him briefly, or to detain him briefly while attempting to obtain additional information”); Adams v. Williams, 407 U.S. 143, 146 (1972)</p>
<p>Now exactly what &#8220;articulable facts&#8221; that support &#8220;a reasonable suspicion that a person has committed a criminal offense&#8221; did Crowley have? A POSSIBLE BE by two males, Gates, a black man, standing behind the glass door??? Bingo!!!</p>
<p>BTW Gates is only required to give his name if the above facts are in play. No address, no photo, name only. Anything beyond is up to the police to obtain in an investigation.</p>
<p>Also I now believe that Obama has made a big mistake in having the beer party because I suspect in a month or so Crowley will be in serious trouble.</p>
<p>Obama made a political miscue in saying &#8220;the police acted stupidly&#8221;. Why? Because no one in the news media is really interested in just following the known facts to their logical conclusion.</p>
<p>Will there be an investigation into Crowley&#8217;s apparent false police report? If it is false and Whalen&#8217;s account is correct Crowley clearly did a very poor job of invetigation at the scene of possible BE. He reacted to perhaps his base preconceptions.</p>
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		<title>By: mikeuragenius</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68594</link>
		<dc:creator>mikeuragenius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Cambridge lost a great opportunity to kick ass

http://mikeuragenius.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/mike-speech-gates-obama-crowley-cambridge-police/

View my blog</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cambridge lost a great opportunity to kick ass</p>
<p><a href="http://mikeuragenius.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/mike-speech-gates-obama-crowley-cambridge-police/" rel="nofollow">http://mikeuragenius.wordpress.com/2009/07/30/mike-speech-gates-obama-crowley-cambridge-police/</a></p>
<p>View my blog</p>
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		<title>By: Nylarthotep</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68584</link>
		<dc:creator>Nylarthotep</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 22:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6543#comment-68584</guid>
		<description>Sorry, I live in the area and you are completely off the mark. The police officer was acting fully within the law. If any other person did the screaming and challenging of the officer trying to determine if the house was in fact been broken into and that person refused to provide legitimate identification they would be arrested.

What do you propose? That the police stand around while an unknown individual continually interferes with the actions required of them? He wasn&#039;t just protesting the police activity, he was drawing a crowd and disturbing the neighbors. So the police&#039;s action may look to you as being unjustified, but was in fact what was required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, I live in the area and you are completely off the mark. The police officer was acting fully within the law. If any other person did the screaming and challenging of the officer trying to determine if the house was in fact been broken into and that person refused to provide legitimate identification they would be arrested.</p>
<p>What do you propose? That the police stand around while an unknown individual continually interferes with the actions required of them? He wasn&#8217;t just protesting the police activity, he was drawing a crowd and disturbing the neighbors. So the police&#8217;s action may look to you as being unjustified, but was in fact what was required.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68579</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 18:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6543#comment-68579</guid>
		<description>You’re right Alice, my assumption may be incorrect but that is my understanding of what happened (which is why I hedged a little and wrote ‘apparently’). If Gates was not able to positively identify himself as the lawful resident of the home, that changes things quite a lot. It’s my understanding that Gates went to the race card very early into the encounter and at first refused to show the ID. It’s also my understanding that he finally did show his ID and after a little more back and forth, the police started to leave without intending to arrest Mr. Gates (Gates was then arrested after hurling insults at the officers). 

Like I said, I don’t have all the facts. If I am wrong about any assumptions I have made based on my understanding of this case, I’ll happily make the necessary corrections.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You’re right Alice, my assumption may be incorrect but that is my understanding of what happened (which is why I hedged a little and wrote ‘apparently’). If Gates was not able to positively identify himself as the lawful resident of the home, that changes things quite a lot. It’s my understanding that Gates went to the race card very early into the encounter and at first refused to show the ID. It’s also my understanding that he finally did show his ID and after a little more back and forth, the police started to leave without intending to arrest Mr. Gates (Gates was then arrested after hurling insults at the officers). </p>
<p>Like I said, I don’t have all the facts. If I am wrong about any assumptions I have made based on my understanding of this case, I’ll happily make the necessary corrections.</p>
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		<title>By: Alice H</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2009/07/29/obama-gates-crowley-and-the-troubling-controversy-that-seemingly-won%e2%80%99t-go-away/#comment-68572</link>
		<dc:creator>Alice H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=6543#comment-68572</guid>
		<description>An assumption I think you&#039;re making that may be incorrect, but I don&#039;t have the time to look it up right now - I don&#039;t believe that Gates was able to positively identify himself as the legal resident.  He showed a Harvard ID, his drivers license did not have the address on it.  

So in a theoretical case, if an officer showed up because a break-in was reported, and the first person he saw said, &quot;Oh, I live here,&quot; would you expect the officer to take that at face value?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An assumption I think you&#8217;re making that may be incorrect, but I don&#8217;t have the time to look it up right now &#8211; I don&#8217;t believe that Gates was able to positively identify himself as the legal resident.  He showed a Harvard ID, his drivers license did not have the address on it.  </p>
<p>So in a theoretical case, if an officer showed up because a break-in was reported, and the first person he saw said, &#8220;Oh, I live here,&#8221; would you expect the officer to take that at face value?</p>
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