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	<title>Comments on: Will the Tea Party movement be willing to support libertarian-leaning candidates?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: Galtish bus driver</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74652</link>
		<dc:creator>Galtish bus driver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 05:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74652</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m a strong (lower-case &quot;l&quot;) libertarian, and have had no problem identifying myself with the general tea party message of smaller government, less spending, and lower taxes.  

So I keep reading from people with various political points of view to spin that I don&#039;t exist.  I think there are a lot of libertarians who identify with the tea party movement.

Having said that, I realize there are lots of conservatives, some of whom are economic or fiscal conservatives and some of whom are social conservatives, within the tea party movement.  In fact, it&#039;s pretty clear that they are a majority WITHIN THE TEA PARTY.  I don&#039;t have a problem with that.  In majoritarian democracy politics, we can obtain movement in the direction of smaller government if we get 50% +1 of the folks in the polity to want less spending and taxes.  If others also want socially conservative personal decisions to be legislated and then enforced by the coercive state, they would likewise need 50% + 1 on those policy decisions.  

I suspect it will be easier in our US polity today to get a majority on the first than it will be on the last.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a strong (lower-case &#8220;l&#8221;) libertarian, and have had no problem identifying myself with the general tea party message of smaller government, less spending, and lower taxes.  </p>
<p>So I keep reading from people with various political points of view to spin that I don&#8217;t exist.  I think there are a lot of libertarians who identify with the tea party movement.</p>
<p>Having said that, I realize there are lots of conservatives, some of whom are economic or fiscal conservatives and some of whom are social conservatives, within the tea party movement.  In fact, it&#8217;s pretty clear that they are a majority WITHIN THE TEA PARTY.  I don&#8217;t have a problem with that.  In majoritarian democracy politics, we can obtain movement in the direction of smaller government if we get 50% +1 of the folks in the polity to want less spending and taxes.  If others also want socially conservative personal decisions to be legislated and then enforced by the coercive state, they would likewise need 50% + 1 on those policy decisions.  </p>
<p>I suspect it will be easier in our US polity today to get a majority on the first than it will be on the last.</p>
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		<title>By: Procopius</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74649</link>
		<dc:creator>Procopius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 02:26:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74649</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Steven, I&#039;d like to correct, or clarify, your claim of Ron Paul + Pro Life.  He is against abortion in spirit, but he feels that abortion is &quot;too complex of an issue&quot; to be either outlawed, or govt funded.  This is a distinct stance that is separate from anti-abortion codifying and he said that on national TV in response to an abortion question during the 2008 prez debates.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven, I&#8217;d like to correct, or clarify, your claim of Ron Paul + Pro Life.  He is against abortion in spirit, but he feels that abortion is &#8220;too complex of an issue&#8221; to be either outlawed, or govt funded.  This is a distinct stance that is separate from anti-abortion codifying and he said that on national TV in response to an abortion question during the 2008 prez debates.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74646</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 01:00:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74646</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[BTW, today in Sussex County, at a church picnic Christine was asked about her past views on social issues.  She said pretty much that she said these things as a teenager, and since her views &quot;have matured.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, today in Sussex County, at a church picnic Christine was asked about her past views on social issues.  She said pretty much that she said these things as a teenager, and since her views &#8220;have matured.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74645</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74645</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Okay, think of it this way.  Christine O&#039;Donnell is not so much a &quot;libertarian.&quot;  She&#039;s a social conservative with a libertarian streak.

Kind of like Ron Paul is a libertarian with a social conservative streak.  

I&#039;m not sure we want Christine to be a full-blooded libertarian.  There&#039;s lots and lots of Catholics in Delaware, especially around Wilmington.  Having a pro-lifer with a libertarian streak is about the most we could ask for in Delaware.  Let&#039;s celebrate having her as our standard-bearer, and stop denigrating her, and questioning her, and saying that she&#039;s &quot;not perfect.&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay, think of it this way.  Christine O&#8217;Donnell is not so much a &#8220;libertarian.&#8221;  She&#8217;s a social conservative with a libertarian streak.</p>
<p>Kind of like Ron Paul is a libertarian with a social conservative streak.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure we want Christine to be a full-blooded libertarian.  There&#8217;s lots and lots of Catholics in Delaware, especially around Wilmington.  Having a pro-lifer with a libertarian streak is about the most we could ask for in Delaware.  Let&#8217;s celebrate having her as our standard-bearer, and stop denigrating her, and questioning her, and saying that she&#8217;s &#8220;not perfect.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74644</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Sep 2010 00:49:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Eric, I’ll address your notion that Christine O’Donnell is a libertarian. The truth is I don’t know a whole lot about her other than what I read about her yesterday from several news articles. From what I have read so far: she scares the shit out of me on her extreme social conservative issues.   

As far as her ideas about birth control, abstinence, and masturbation are concerned, I’m not sure if she still holds these views or if her views have since matured. I’m also not clear if these are “just” her personal views or if she wants to somehow codify these views into law (ex: waste more tax dollars on abstinence only sex education, ban certain forms of birth control, etc.).  

The most disturbing thing I have read about her so far is her stance on abortion. I fully realize that libertarians have very different views on this issue. Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Andrew Napolitano, and Bob Barr are all pro-life (which is fine) while many others are staunchly pro-choice. Christine O’Donnell takes a view that is far more extreme than most who call themselves pro-life though. She doesn’t even believe there should be an exception for rape or incest; the only exception she would allow is if the mother’s life is at stake in which case, the woman’s family would make the choice of “which life to save.” 

This is just one pill I cannot swallow. Why should it be up to the woman’s family rather than the woman? This sounds like a sort of policy that the Taliban would have and certainly not by any stretch of the imagination one that is in line with libertarian ideals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eric, I’ll address your notion that Christine O’Donnell is a libertarian. The truth is I don’t know a whole lot about her other than what I read about her yesterday from several news articles. From what I have read so far: she scares the shit out of me on her extreme social conservative issues.   </p>
<p>As far as her ideas about birth control, abstinence, and masturbation are concerned, I’m not sure if she still holds these views or if her views have since matured. I’m also not clear if these are “just” her personal views or if she wants to somehow codify these views into law (ex: waste more tax dollars on abstinence only sex education, ban certain forms of birth control, etc.).  </p>
<p>The most disturbing thing I have read about her so far is her stance on abortion. I fully realize that libertarians have very different views on this issue. Ron Paul, Rand Paul, Andrew Napolitano, and Bob Barr are all pro-life (which is fine) while many others are staunchly pro-choice. Christine O’Donnell takes a view that is far more extreme than most who call themselves pro-life though. She doesn’t even believe there should be an exception for rape or incest; the only exception she would allow is if the mother’s life is at stake in which case, the woman’s family would make the choice of “which life to save.” </p>
<p>This is just one pill I cannot swallow. Why should it be up to the woman’s family rather than the woman? This sounds like a sort of policy that the Taliban would have and certainly not by any stretch of the imagination one that is in line with libertarian ideals.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74631</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74631</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Y&#039;know, I started this thread with some information about Christine O&#039;Donnell having attended the June meeting of the Libertarian Party in Dover.  Amazing not a single one of you has commented on that.  I guess it doesn&#039;t fit y&#039;all&#039;s template that she cannot possibly be a libertarian.  

It&#039;s like in 2008.  Sarah Palin had attended numerous meetings of the Libertarian Party of Alaska.  She was buddies with the leaders of the ALP.  They endorsed her in her Governor&#039;s race in 2006.  Yet, you didn&#039;t hear a single Libertarian Party person talking about that in 2008 when she ran as VP.  And you hardly hear anything about it today.  

Some of you people are truly pathetic.  If something doesn&#039;t fit your template - &quot;Sarah Palin cannot possibly be a libertarian&quot; - you ignore it.  And you wonder why some libertarians are hopeless when it comes to real world politics.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Y&#8217;know, I started this thread with some information about Christine O&#8217;Donnell having attended the June meeting of the Libertarian Party in Dover.  Amazing not a single one of you has commented on that.  I guess it doesn&#8217;t fit y&#8217;all&#8217;s template that she cannot possibly be a libertarian.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s like in 2008.  Sarah Palin had attended numerous meetings of the Libertarian Party of Alaska.  She was buddies with the leaders of the ALP.  They endorsed her in her Governor&#8217;s race in 2006.  Yet, you didn&#8217;t hear a single Libertarian Party person talking about that in 2008 when she ran as VP.  And you hardly hear anything about it today.  </p>
<p>Some of you people are truly pathetic.  If something doesn&#8217;t fit your template &#8211; &#8220;Sarah Palin cannot possibly be a libertarian&#8221; &#8211; you ignore it.  And you wonder why some libertarians are hopeless when it comes to real world politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74630</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Sep 2010 12:14:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74630</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael, allowing illegal aliens to enter our country without a Visa, and to trample on the private property of ranchers and farmers in the southern environs of our 4 border states is not &quot;libertarian.&quot;  The correct libertarian position would be to enforce the law.  We welcome legal immigrants, and we most certainly welcome visitors and tourists to this Great Nation of ours who want to visit DisneyWorld, Washington D.C., Mt. Rushmore, Yosemetie, the Grand Canyon, ect...  But kindly ENTER OUR COUNTRY THROUGH THE GATES THAT WE&#039;VE SET UP, so that we can run a quick background check on you and ensure you&#039;re not some sort of child molestor, murderer, or drug kingpin fleeing the Mexican government.  

When I travel to Mexico, I have to go through extensive background checks from the Mexican government.  Why the double-standard?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, allowing illegal aliens to enter our country without a Visa, and to trample on the private property of ranchers and farmers in the southern environs of our 4 border states is not &#8220;libertarian.&#8221;  The correct libertarian position would be to enforce the law.  We welcome legal immigrants, and we most certainly welcome visitors and tourists to this Great Nation of ours who want to visit DisneyWorld, Washington D.C., Mt. Rushmore, Yosemetie, the Grand Canyon, ect&#8230;  But kindly ENTER OUR COUNTRY THROUGH THE GATES THAT WE&#8217;VE SET UP, so that we can run a quick background check on you and ensure you&#8217;re not some sort of child molestor, murderer, or drug kingpin fleeing the Mexican government.  </p>
<p>When I travel to Mexico, I have to go through extensive background checks from the Mexican government.  Why the double-standard?</p>
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		<title>By: The Drug War &#124; Hemp Products and News</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74607</link>
		<dc:creator>The Drug War &#124; Hemp Products and News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:36:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74607</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] If only a left/right alliance would cooperate to end the drug war, get a grand compromise on the debt, and rein in defense spending and police state creep. But seriously, does Jesse really believe that the Tea Party would do any of these things? Read more&gt;&gt;  [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If only a left/right alliance would cooperate to end the drug war, get a grand compromise on the debt, and rein in defense spending and police state creep. But seriously, does Jesse really believe that the Tea Party would do any of these things? Read more&gt;&gt;  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74602</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:17:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74602</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael,

It&#039;s a populist movement, and I wouldn&#039;t expect to see &quot;intellectual libertarianism.&quot;  That isn&#039;t their role in the political landscape.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a populist movement, and I wouldn&#8217;t expect to see &#8220;intellectual libertarianism.&#8221;  That isn&#8217;t their role in the political landscape.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Gordon</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74601</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Gordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 15:15:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74601</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Stephen, I&#039;m not sure you could say the socons have coopted the movement, as they have always been a player.  I think I once wrote that they (depending upon how one defines socon) seem to be about a third of the movement, and that still seems to hold up. 

The key thing, from my perspective, is that the two or three key issues this very broad coalition movement seems to agree and focus upon are not anti-libertarian positions. And I&#039;ve advised Tea Party people (on this blog, even) not to stray to far from those common goals.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen, I&#8217;m not sure you could say the socons have coopted the movement, as they have always been a player.  I think I once wrote that they (depending upon how one defines socon) seem to be about a third of the movement, and that still seems to hold up. </p>
<p>The key thing, from my perspective, is that the two or three key issues this very broad coalition movement seems to agree and focus upon are not anti-libertarian positions. And I&#8217;ve advised Tea Party people (on this blog, even) not to stray to far from those common goals.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael O. Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74596</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael O. Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 13:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74596</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[All right. I&#039;m not trying to argue the man himself. I just have strong doubts about him getting his rise in Kentucky, stuff I&#039;ve heard from Kentuckians and his eyebrow raising positions on immigration and the CRA. The right and left wing chasm in libertarianism over immigration especially is worth noting and I&#039;m not an ideological purist here. Nevertheless, I would personally like to see someone in the political world who makes the case for shredding the immigration bureaucracy and not the typical bad choices of punitive police state ala Arizona or blanket amnesty that only furthers the problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All right. I&#8217;m not trying to argue the man himself. I just have strong doubts about him getting his rise in Kentucky, stuff I&#8217;ve heard from Kentuckians and his eyebrow raising positions on immigration and the CRA. The right and left wing chasm in libertarianism over immigration especially is worth noting and I&#8217;m not an ideological purist here. Nevertheless, I would personally like to see someone in the political world who makes the case for shredding the immigration bureaucracy and not the typical bad choices of punitive police state ala Arizona or blanket amnesty that only furthers the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Dondero</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74595</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Dondero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 12:45:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74595</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[And by definition a &quot;Constititonal Conservative&quot; most certainly falls into the wide spectrum of libertarian belief.  It just happens to be a more marketable term in the State of Kentucky.

Trust me.  Having known Rand for over 25 years, he&#039;s about as libertarian as they come.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And by definition a &#8220;Constititonal Conservative&#8221; most certainly falls into the wide spectrum of libertarian belief.  It just happens to be a more marketable term in the State of Kentucky.</p>
<p>Trust me.  Having known Rand for over 25 years, he&#8217;s about as libertarian as they come.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael O. Powell</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74592</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael O. Powell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 10:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74592</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on.</p>
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		<title>By: Westmiller</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74588</link>
		<dc:creator>Westmiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 06:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74588</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you have to define the tea party movement as almost entirely a *reactionary* force. The various elements know what they do *not* like, but don&#039;t have any coherent affirmative ideals.

They are certain that they don&#039;t like what Obama has been doing, but &quot;not that way&quot; leaves lots of other directions to travel, beyond the exact opposite. Some do and some don&#039;t like the direction of the Bush Presidency and most don&#039;t like the Republican inclination to compromise or simply mitigate the programs of the &quot;progressives&quot;. Being a &quot;Party of No&quot; to their opponent&#039;s agenda is sufficient motivation.

If reaction is the sole coherent motive, then one can find many &quot;vectors&quot; in the opposite direction, from libertarian to social conservative to simple anti-establishment sentiments. Once the &quot;progress&quot; of their opponents has been stopped, the blend of preferred vectors will be in dispute.

So, one can hope that this is an opportunity for libertarian logic and political ethics to become the primar vector in future American politics, but there&#039;s no guarantee. Whichever vector dominates, it will certainly be better (on most issues) than the current &quot;track&quot; we&#039;re on.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you have to define the tea party movement as almost entirely a *reactionary* force. The various elements know what they do *not* like, but don&#8217;t have any coherent affirmative ideals.</p>
<p>They are certain that they don&#8217;t like what Obama has been doing, but &#8220;not that way&#8221; leaves lots of other directions to travel, beyond the exact opposite. Some do and some don&#8217;t like the direction of the Bush Presidency and most don&#8217;t like the Republican inclination to compromise or simply mitigate the programs of the &#8220;progressives&#8221;. Being a &#8220;Party of No&#8221; to their opponent&#8217;s agenda is sufficient motivation.</p>
<p>If reaction is the sole coherent motive, then one can find many &#8220;vectors&#8221; in the opposite direction, from libertarian to social conservative to simple anti-establishment sentiments. Once the &#8220;progress&#8221; of their opponents has been stopped, the blend of preferred vectors will be in dispute.</p>
<p>So, one can hope that this is an opportunity for libertarian logic and political ethics to become the primar vector in future American politics, but there&#8217;s no guarantee. Whichever vector dominates, it will certainly be better (on most issues) than the current &#8220;track&#8221; we&#8217;re on.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2010/09/17/will-the-tea-party-movement-be-willing-to-support-libertarian-leaning-candidates/#comment-74582</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Sep 2010 01:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=8448#comment-74582</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Gordo! Glad to read something of yours here again. I&#039;ve been wondering what your take on the Tea Party is these days as quite a lot has happened since you wrote about your observations. I&#039;m afraid the social cons have co-opted the Tea Party and will have little semblance of anything libertarian at all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gordo! Glad to read something of yours here again. I&#8217;ve been wondering what your take on the Tea Party is these days as quite a lot has happened since you wrote about your observations. I&#8217;m afraid the social cons have co-opted the Tea Party and will have little semblance of anything libertarian at all.</p>
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