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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s not about &#8220;Elites&#8221; or &#8220;Idiots&#8221;&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: tkc</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80454</link>
		<dc:creator>tkc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2011 16:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80454</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Even with perfect information one runs into the problem of people making irrational decisions.  For example, my favorite vice is single malt scotch.  If I gave this up I&#039;d probably be better off financially (the good stuff ain&#039;t cheap) and be in better health.  
So maybe some authoritarian (right or left, it matters not) will look after me by banning single malt scotch.  They would probably expect me to thank them for this but I wouldn&#039;t.  Sure, it is a vice, but one I like, so I would be angry with the notion of someone forcing me to stop. Even with perfect information they&#039;d get the result wrong.

I&#039;ll also side with Andrews here.  It is not a right versus left thing.  It is better measured by authority versus liberty.  There are plenty on the left and the right that are authoritarians, just in different ways.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even with perfect information one runs into the problem of people making irrational decisions.  For example, my favorite vice is single malt scotch.  If I gave this up I&#8217;d probably be better off financially (the good stuff ain&#8217;t cheap) and be in better health.<br />
So maybe some authoritarian (right or left, it matters not) will look after me by banning single malt scotch.  They would probably expect me to thank them for this but I wouldn&#8217;t.  Sure, it is a vice, but one I like, so I would be angry with the notion of someone forcing me to stop. Even with perfect information they&#8217;d get the result wrong.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll also side with Andrews here.  It is not a right versus left thing.  It is better measured by authority versus liberty.  There are plenty on the left and the right that are authoritarians, just in different ways.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80446</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 04:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80446</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ludwig von Mises had a great take on all of this. I can&#039;t find the exact quote, but he said something to the effect that the passionate advocates of various political systems are not evil; the non-Misesians are decent people laboring under miseducation or fallacious reasoning.

I think he called everyone who wasn&#039;t one of his acolytes an idiot or the student of idiots. :)

Joking aside, I think it&#039;s not helpfull to demonize or dehumanize one&#039;s idealogical opponents.  It&#039;s fun, can God knows I do it a &lt;em&gt;lot&lt;/em&gt;. But it doesn&#039;t put one&#039;s opponents in a receptive state of mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ludwig von Mises had a great take on all of this. I can&#8217;t find the exact quote, but he said something to the effect that the passionate advocates of various political systems are not evil; the non-Misesians are decent people laboring under miseducation or fallacious reasoning.</p>
<p>I think he called everyone who wasn&#8217;t one of his acolytes an idiot or the student of idiots. :)</p>
<p>Joking aside, I think it&#8217;s not helpfull to demonize or dehumanize one&#8217;s idealogical opponents.  It&#8217;s fun, can God knows I do it a <em>lot</em>. But it doesn&#8217;t put one&#8217;s opponents in a receptive state of mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80443</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80443</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris,

I ran into this years ago, and posted at my own blog way back in 2005 about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://unrepentantindividual.com/2005/01/10/the-evil-and-the-stupid/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stupid/evil dichotomy&lt;/a&gt; that the left seems to place conservatives/libertarians into.  They assume we&#039;re either being duped by our evil masters, or that we&#039;re evil masters.

At the time, the incident that instigated that post was highly offensive to me...  Not that I was offended that the leftist in question broke libertarians into stupid vs. evil -- but rather she assumed that I was in the &quot;stupid&quot; group...  I can deal with being called evil, but stupid???  Them&#039;s fightin&#039; words.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>I ran into this years ago, and posted at my own blog way back in 2005 about the <a href="http://unrepentantindividual.com/2005/01/10/the-evil-and-the-stupid/" rel="nofollow">stupid/evil dichotomy</a> that the left seems to place conservatives/libertarians into.  They assume we&#8217;re either being duped by our evil masters, or that we&#8217;re evil masters.</p>
<p>At the time, the incident that instigated that post was highly offensive to me&#8230;  Not that I was offended that the leftist in question broke libertarians into stupid vs. evil &#8212; but rather she assumed that I was in the &#8220;stupid&#8221; group&#8230;  I can deal with being called evil, but stupid???  Them&#8217;s fightin&#8217; words.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80442</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Dec 2011 00:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80442</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[andrews,

In addition to what tarran has already said, I&#039;d point out that there are multiple wings of the &quot;Conservative&quot; movement.  One of those wings are the social conservatives.  While I&#039;d disagree that they want someone to &quot;run things&quot;, they definitely want a government big enough to ensure we don&#039;t do the things they don&#039;t like.  I personally consider it a blind spot to think the government can&#039;t be trusted to run the economy but &lt;em&gt;can&lt;/em&gt; be trusted to run our personal lives, but that&#039;s why I&#039;m a libertarian and not a conservative.

Generally that Conservative blind spot also applies to police/defense.  They believe the government&#039;s rightful place is in keeping the peace and national defense, but they also seem to ascribe supernatural power to the government to do it fairly, objectively, and without the need for civilian/public oversight.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>andrews,</p>
<p>In addition to what tarran has already said, I&#8217;d point out that there are multiple wings of the &#8220;Conservative&#8221; movement.  One of those wings are the social conservatives.  While I&#8217;d disagree that they want someone to &#8220;run things&#8221;, they definitely want a government big enough to ensure we don&#8217;t do the things they don&#8217;t like.  I personally consider it a blind spot to think the government can&#8217;t be trusted to run the economy but <em>can</em> be trusted to run our personal lives, but that&#8217;s why I&#8217;m a libertarian and not a conservative.</p>
<p>Generally that Conservative blind spot also applies to police/defense.  They believe the government&#8217;s rightful place is in keeping the peace and national defense, but they also seem to ascribe supernatural power to the government to do it fairly, objectively, and without the need for civilian/public oversight.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80441</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 23:23:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is that a &lt;em&gt;tu quoque&lt;/em&gt; fallacy I see lurking in the mist?

&lt;blockquote&gt;I think you may be missing a bit of reality here.

Conservatives regularly seek someone to run things.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why, yes it is! ;)

It&#039;s also a false dichotomy to assume rightists are conservatives and leftists aren&#039;t. For example, drug prohibition was a plank of the progressive movement&#039;s political platform at the rise of the 20th century.  In the right, the major supporters of drug prohibition came from the Rockefeller wing of the Republican party, a group of right-wing progressives.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that a <em>tu quoque</em> fallacy I see lurking in the mist?</p>
<blockquote><p>I think you may be missing a bit of reality here.</p>
<p>Conservatives regularly seek someone to run things.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why, yes it is! ;)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also a false dichotomy to assume rightists are conservatives and leftists aren&#8217;t. For example, drug prohibition was a plank of the progressive movement&#8217;s political platform at the rise of the 20th century.  In the right, the major supporters of drug prohibition came from the Rockefeller wing of the Republican party, a group of right-wing progressives.</p>
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		<title>By: andrews</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80440</link>
		<dc:creator>andrews</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:13:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80440</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think you may be missing a bit of reality here.

Conservatives regularly seek someone to run things.  They expand government, and not merely spending, at a phenominal rate.

It is, after all, the conservatives who want to tell us what drugs we should have, and when, and where.  Sure, there is some stupidity there; it helps if you don&#039;t remember that prohibition is generally doomed to failure.

It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us  Guantanamo, and infinite military detention, and the AEDPA to effectively if not in name eliminate habeas corpus.

It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us the Trouser Search Agency (TSA).  The TSA may not make us safer, but it sure makes us more docile and better habituated to following sensless orders from our betters.

It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us the ``Patriot&#039;&#039; act, and myriad government bureaucrats snooping into your phone calls, and bank records, and anything else they can think of, without need to justify, explain, or even admit that they did it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you may be missing a bit of reality here.</p>
<p>Conservatives regularly seek someone to run things.  They expand government, and not merely spending, at a phenominal rate.</p>
<p>It is, after all, the conservatives who want to tell us what drugs we should have, and when, and where.  Sure, there is some stupidity there; it helps if you don&#8217;t remember that prohibition is generally doomed to failure.</p>
<p>It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us  Guantanamo, and infinite military detention, and the AEDPA to effectively if not in name eliminate habeas corpus.</p>
<p>It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us the Trouser Search Agency (TSA).  The TSA may not make us safer, but it sure makes us more docile and better habituated to following sensless orders from our betters.</p>
<p>It is, after all, the conservatives who brought us the &#8220;Patriot&#8221; act, and myriad government bureaucrats snooping into your phone calls, and bank records, and anything else they can think of, without need to justify, explain, or even admit that they did it.</p>
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		<title>By: l4k</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80432</link>
		<dc:creator>l4k</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 16:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Exactly right.  I don&#039;t how many of lefty FB &quot;friends&quot; post snarky comments about conservatives wanting dumb people to get elected.  Funny, these types of comments are usually clustered around the same time.  I guess these smart lefties are so smart that they just naturally come up with the idea to post their snarky comments at the same time.  It  couldn&#039;t be that they are getting their marching orders from some far left site.  No, couldn&#039;t be.  They are too smart for that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly right.  I don&#8217;t how many of lefty FB &#8220;friends&#8221; post snarky comments about conservatives wanting dumb people to get elected.  Funny, these types of comments are usually clustered around the same time.  I guess these smart lefties are so smart that they just naturally come up with the idea to post their snarky comments at the same time.  It  couldn&#8217;t be that they are getting their marching orders from some far left site.  No, couldn&#8217;t be.  They are too smart for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80427</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 06:03:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tarran,

I don&#039;t disagree with you on the &quot;life is like the higher education system&quot; thing; but I actually see that as simply an extension of the daddy thing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tarran,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you on the &#8220;life is like the higher education system&#8221; thing; but I actually see that as simply an extension of the daddy thing.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2011/12/23/its-not-about-elites-or-idiots/#comment-80426</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Dec 2011 03:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10018#comment-80426</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that you&#039;ve nailed the approach of a significant number of people in the left, but are painting with too broad a brush.

There are also a significant number of people who are looking at life like school.  You do the right things, you are rewarded with money, just as in school you were rewarded with grades.  A significant number of leftists I have interacted with are upset at people inheriting money or benefiting from some windfall because of envy.

This is a slightly different phenomenon that is just as insidious.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you&#8217;ve nailed the approach of a significant number of people in the left, but are painting with too broad a brush.</p>
<p>There are also a significant number of people who are looking at life like school.  You do the right things, you are rewarded with money, just as in school you were rewarded with grades.  A significant number of leftists I have interacted with are upset at people inheriting money or benefiting from some windfall because of envy.</p>
<p>This is a slightly different phenomenon that is just as insidious.</p>
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