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	<title>Comments on: Accountability, responsibility, risk, metrics, unions, markets&#8230; What about education?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/</link>
	<description>Life. Liberty. Property. Defending individual freedom and liberty, one post at a time.</description>
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		<title>By: Chicago Teachers&#8217; Strike &#124; realfreemarket.org</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87638</link>
		<dc:creator>Chicago Teachers&#8217; Strike &#124; realfreemarket.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Sep 2012 16:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87638</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] This story is interesting. In Chicago, public school teachers are striking. They are demanding a ridiculously high pay increase, 30% over 4 years. They object to a new system for &#8220;giving teachers more accountability&#8221;. [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This story is interesting. In Chicago, public school teachers are striking. They are demanding a ridiculously high pay increase, 30% over 4 years. They object to a new system for &#8220;giving teachers more accountability&#8221;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87532</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87532</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Seriously though, Chris: great job on this post. There’s nothing here I can really take issue with.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously though, Chris: great job on this post. There’s nothing here I can really take issue with.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Littau</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87531</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Littau</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 18:41:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87531</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, what Chris said :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what Chris said :)</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87521</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 07:29:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87521</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Brad,

Let me first say that I completely agree with you that the best way to solve the problem I posed would be to let the free market handle it (I feel this would also improve the quality of curriculum and teaching as well; government bureaucrats have no idea what should and shouldn&#039;t be taught in math courses!). Unfortunately, as you know, we libertarians often have viewpoints that differ greatly from those of mainstream America, and try as I might, I just can&#039;t foresee a scenario where we actually have true school choice. I was envisioning the more likely scenario where we keep largely the same public school system and add in some form of teacher evaluation. I just wanted to point out that, in this case, we really need to be careful how we evaluate teachers, since it&#039;s a highly non-trivial problem.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brad,</p>
<p>Let me first say that I completely agree with you that the best way to solve the problem I posed would be to let the free market handle it (I feel this would also improve the quality of curriculum and teaching as well; government bureaucrats have no idea what should and shouldn&#8217;t be taught in math courses!). Unfortunately, as you know, we libertarians often have viewpoints that differ greatly from those of mainstream America, and try as I might, I just can&#8217;t foresee a scenario where we actually have true school choice. I was envisioning the more likely scenario where we keep largely the same public school system and add in some form of teacher evaluation. I just wanted to point out that, in this case, we really need to be careful how we evaluate teachers, since it&#8217;s a highly non-trivial problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Brad Warbiany</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87517</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad Warbiany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 06:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87517</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris,

Excellent post.  Agreed that employee performance is most *definitely* something that can be evaluated (if not always easily &quot;measured&quot;), and that it&#039;s often quite relative and subjective.  It comes down to doing the best you can with what you have, and sometimes as you point out, &quot;what you have&quot; is often far outside your control...

I understand why teachers might be opposed to standardized tests to measure their performance.  The problem is that they&#039;re also opposed to every other method to measure their performance...

Ryan,

Again, there&#039;s a much simpler solution -- school choice.  If parents have the ability to choose where to send their kids, you create a market in education.  When you create a market, there&#039;s an incentive for schools to &lt;em&gt;figure out&lt;/em&gt; how to attract better teachers and measure their performance.  

I know people on &quot;the left&quot; tend to be very wary of the response that we should just let the market sort it out, but it works...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Excellent post.  Agreed that employee performance is most *definitely* something that can be evaluated (if not always easily &#8220;measured&#8221;), and that it&#8217;s often quite relative and subjective.  It comes down to doing the best you can with what you have, and sometimes as you point out, &#8220;what you have&#8221; is often far outside your control&#8230;</p>
<p>I understand why teachers might be opposed to standardized tests to measure their performance.  The problem is that they&#8217;re also opposed to every other method to measure their performance&#8230;</p>
<p>Ryan,</p>
<p>Again, there&#8217;s a much simpler solution &#8212; school choice.  If parents have the ability to choose where to send their kids, you create a market in education.  When you create a market, there&#8217;s an incentive for schools to <em>figure out</em> how to attract better teachers and measure their performance.  </p>
<p>I know people on &#8220;the left&#8221; tend to be very wary of the response that we should just let the market sort it out, but it works&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ryan</title>
		<link>http://www.thelibertypapers.org/2012/09/12/accountability-responsibility-risk-metrics-unions-markets-what-about-education/#comment-87511</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2012 02:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thelibertypapers.org/?p=10940#comment-87511</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My main issue with teacher performance is that the primary method used to evaluate the teachers will (most likely) be by some sort of standardized test scores. Now, I&#039;m a Ph.D student in mathematics, and I can tell you that our current standardized tests do very little to reflect proper, &quot;good&quot; teaching of math. In fact, in my opinion, if a teacher actually taught mathematics in the right way, their students would probably fail the standardized tests we give today (because they wouldn&#039;t waste time on trivial things like &quot;rationalize the denominator&quot; or &quot;write 11/7 as a mixed number&quot;). Of course the teacher probably did a great job of actually getting students to learn some mathematics, but would be considered a &quot;bad teacher&quot; because of a flawed testing system. I&#039;m not opposed to competition in education, but first we need to take a long, serious look at the way we evaluate teachers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My main issue with teacher performance is that the primary method used to evaluate the teachers will (most likely) be by some sort of standardized test scores. Now, I&#8217;m a Ph.D student in mathematics, and I can tell you that our current standardized tests do very little to reflect proper, &#8220;good&#8221; teaching of math. In fact, in my opinion, if a teacher actually taught mathematics in the right way, their students would probably fail the standardized tests we give today (because they wouldn&#8217;t waste time on trivial things like &#8220;rationalize the denominator&#8221; or &#8220;write 11/7 as a mixed number&#8221;). Of course the teacher probably did a great job of actually getting students to learn some mathematics, but would be considered a &#8220;bad teacher&#8221; because of a flawed testing system. I&#8217;m not opposed to competition in education, but first we need to take a long, serious look at the way we evaluate teachers.</p>
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